 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: packrat
Date: 2007-01-29 16:35
My wood clarinet seems to have a hairline crack in the bell. I can feel it with my nail both inside and out, but it is very difficult to see and follows the grain line to to bottom. I've watched it for about 2 months and it doesn't seem to be getting bigger. Neither of the rings seem loose or tight. Do I need to have it repaired? It doesn't seem to effect the sound or pitch. What do you think?
Becky
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Author: johnnymo0829
Date: 2007-01-29 17:00
I'd get it into a good repairperson as soon as you can. The crack may have stopped, but it can always get worse.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-01-29 17:10
An excellent repairman (Peter Spriggs) told me that the wood in the bell is too thin to hold a pin. Instead, he glues the crack together and makes sure the ring is snug. That's worked fine on my 1908 Buffet Bb.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-29 17:46
Provided both rings are nice and tight, you won't have any trouble.
Running thin superglue into the crack will seal and hold it, and the repair once finished and polished up should be impossible to see if it's done well.
Both sound and tuning won't be affected.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Dan
Date: 2007-01-29 22:07
Use the black colored super glue available at most hardware stores.
I purchase it from OSH.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-01-30 01:45
Ken,
that 1908 Buffet is probably blown out, has a crooked bore and smells awful. Please send it to me.
thanks
Bob Phillips
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-01-30 16:22
I'm wondering: An old cracked glass repair procedure is to drill a small hole at the very end of the progressing crack. Just what is done after that I'm not sure. But has this procedure ever been used on cracks in clarinets?
Bob Draznik
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-30 16:39
The "end hole" is to transform a very tiny tearing spot into a comparably big surface, it will "end" and unfinished slit.
You see the same technique with eg thick plastic curtains (in cooled storage rooms); if they aren't cut into bands all the way up, then they have a round hole where the slit ends, in order to prevent tearing.
This only works in amorphous substances where there is no inherent "preferred" way of tearing and cracking. Might work with hardwood, but the crack has to be stabilised anyway.
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-30 16:57
If a crack doesn't terminate in a tonehole I usually drill a blind hole (to about 2/3 to 3/4 the depth of the joint wall) into the joint just beyond where the crack stops and fill it, so this should stop it spreading further.
I've heard some oboe repairers put a piercing saw cut across the body to do the same thing.
But on a bell that's cracked all the way through, the hole should also go all the way through and then filled.
If the low E is flat and the crack spreads up to near the socket, then this could be disguised as a bell vent as on reform Boehms or the passive vent on Forte clarinets!
I've seen similar things done to cymbals that have cracked - each end of the crack has a hole drilled into it to stop the crack spreading further, but left unfilled.
I did a similar thing on an old MkVI bari sax where the Eb keyguard had cracked the body between the Eb tonehole and the join due to the poorly designed case (which is the Selmer London original case) - I drilled a 2mm hole at both ends of the crack, cleaned out the crack with a piercing saw, made some brass rivets to fill the holes and silver soldered the lot up. The ends of the rivets were then filed flush with the body and the bore, the keyguard posts replaced and the burnt area cleaned up, polished, degreased and relacquered, overspraying the original lacquer by an inch so it could be blended in with T-Cut. Modified the case so the weight of the sax was distributed all down the back of the body instead of letting the Eb keyguard and top U tube bear all the weight which caused the damage in the first place.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: mk
Date: 2007-01-31 01:12
if i hear one more super glue repair solution i am going to get stuck on it!.....seriously the liberty bell is doing just fine......ultimately i would make sure the rings are snug and just let it alone...check humidty conditions in the location the instrument is kept most often....never saw a pinned bell nor have i never pinned a bell....is the bell leaking? Did you check for suction?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-31 11:07
If you're such an authority, then let us all know what you'd do as we're all really interested.
SUPERGLUE!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-31 11:30
What did repairers do before the invention of superglue?
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-31 11:55
Probably the same thing as mk - do nothing but pretend they know everything and reckon they know more than anyone else.
They probably used epoxy resin or shellac in the olden days.
As for the Liberty bell, that's an entirely different matter as bells of this kind will be affected by cracks, whereas clarinet bells won't if they're repaired using SUPERGLUE.
Superglue is the lifeblood of woodwind makers!
Just out of interest mk, what woud you use instead of superglue?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-31 12:21
> Just out of interest mk, what woud you use instead of superglue?
Cyanoacrylate. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
But I'd take the big crown stapler. The raw beauty of a stapled bell is fascinating and priceless.
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-31 12:34
I was thinking of a stapled bell too - probably around 15-20 staples running up the bell along the line of the crack would do the job and the customer will be well impressed with the workmanship.
Or drill a row of holes either side of the crack and wire it together leaving the twisted and cut ends of the wire on the outside. Just mind how you hold the bell when you put it on so you don't cut yourself with the sharp bits of wire.
Or just stick insulating tape or gaffa tape over the staples or wire to make the job invisible.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2007-01-31 12:44
Duct tape will fix anything that can't be repaired with bailing wire! Eu
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-31 12:52
Duct tape is for nerds. The stylish craftsperson is proud of the achievement and accentuates the beauty of a repair job with tastefully applied band-aid strips.
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Ben
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2007-01-31 12:56
I stand abashed after my public display of such ignorance and lack of asthetic considerations. Eu
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-31 14:05
You can't be a seasoned clarinet roadie without a roll of gaffa/duct tape and a Maglight.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: packrat
Date: 2007-01-31 15:39
Thanks to everyone who replied. I don't know how to check the bell to see if it's leaking, but I don't think that it is since the crack is so miniscule. However I just checked the ring around the bottom of the bell and it can be turned with effort. However it is still very tight. It doesn't seem to affect my intonation so unless anyone thinks that it will create a bigger problem I'm just going to leave it alone.
Thanks for the advice.
Becky
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2007-01-31 15:58
For what it's worth, the Liberty Bell is clamped along the length of its crack, and I think that you can even see the clamps on the face of the coin that has a depiction of the bell on its reverse. These clamps were placed to hold it together, but not to allow it to be rung,
The hole in the end or the radiused corner of an opening in steel plate are that way to ensure that there are no "stress risers" where expansion and contraction can concentrate to start a crack moving through a material. Early Liberty ships during World War II were made with square (i.e., un-radiused) hatch openings to save fabrication time, and the resultant design was the cause of loss of several of these vessels, which literally "cracked in half". Not a good thing.
The cracking in the bell isn't as critical to an instrument as is a crack to the north of it, but it is troubling and unattractive. If it were my horn, I'd try to secure a in kind replacement (i.e., a Series 9 bell for a broken Series 9 bell) and fix it that way. From what I have been told in the past, the Paris manufactured horns were matched up with bulk barrels and bells once they landed over here in the first place, so no harm no foul.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-31 16:30
I played a pair of Centered Tones which had both bells cracked in several places from top to bottom, and they never caused me any trouble.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: mk
Date: 2007-02-01 00:45
I second that Becky....and by the way....woodwind players should be watching old episodes of "new yankee workshop" and pay particular attention of how Norm deals with the inevitable expansion and contraction properties of wood. The same holds true for woodwinds. And as far as I'm concerned super glue is just fine in my book as long as the expansion and contractility rate of the product is equal to that of wood....otherwise it will simply will not adhere over time and possibly not serve purpuseful end. I am impressed with the chemical name of super glue by the way! Would anyone care to discuss the synthesis reaction of this fine adhesive?
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Author: mk
Date: 2007-02-01 01:07
just for interest to readers, do google search for cyanoacrylate toxicity...good review article titled The toxicity of cyanoacrylate adhesives....authored by Peter Leggat et al.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-02-01 06:48
What with all the other pollutants around us, do you think we're remotely worried?
Tell us what we SHOULD use instead.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-02-01 08:06
OTOH, there's medical cyanoacrylate. (I agree, though, that the solvents in superglue are quite aggressive)
--
Ben
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-02-01 13:38
In the early days of the product I worked in a Materials Laboratory. A favorite trick on new employees was to induce them to allow two of their fingers to be glued together.....and afterwards to slice through the glue joint with a scalpel. Certainly I never participated......except as the new employee.
Regarding "baling wire", Eugene reveals his age! Hence comes the expression "gone haywire". Hay baling wire would occasionally "go wild" when the tie wires were c ut and become almost useless. Same with piano wire....but even more dangerous.
In time the Clarinet BB will replace Google!
Bob Draznik
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