 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dan
Date: 2007-01-29 15:54
I purchased a wood clarinet that needs a complete cleaning and re-cork/padding. I've done this with six resin clarinet, and have used a mild dish washing soap. I've never cleaned a wood clarinet and my ERick Brand Band Inst. Repairing Manual say to use soap. But, it does not specify what type of soap to use.
I was thinking Murphy Oil soap?
Also, should I oil the bore and body and let it absorb and seal before I clean to insure the wood will not swell when cleaned.
The grime is caked on in and around the tenon and sockets, and it has not been used for (I'm guessing) twenty plus years.
Since I have own the inst. it has been in my make-shift 70 degree 50% hum. case.
Dan
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Author: Tim P
Date: 2007-01-29 16:03
one of the BB sponsers, DOC, has some great products that I used to clean my old wooden clarinet and was very satisfied. Not cheap but you won't need much of the stuff and you might feel better knowing that a little thought went into how the porduct affect clarinets.
at least check out his web site.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-29 16:10
Don't immerse it with soap or water.
The best thing to do is strip it right down and take all the pillars and metal fittings off (but keep them in an order so you know where they all went), use a paintbrush with the bristles cut short to scrub the majority of the dirt off the body and tear an old cotton T-shirt into strips and rag the body with these to clean and shine it up, but make sure you don't damage any toneholes.
Some surface gunk will come off with a damp rag, but don't use a dripping wet rag or any detergent. Oil it afterwards and then buff it again with a clean rag to get a nice shine.
Use an old reed (with the tip cut thick and square, and split into narrower widths) to scrape any old crud off the tenons and sockets as this won't scratch the wood, and cotton buds to clean out toneholes.
Once the sockets are cleand and the bore is cleaned and oiled, seal all the end grain at the bottom of the sockets with wax - apply it with a metal rod fashioned so the end looks like a golf club and heat this in a flame to melt the wax, then scrape off any excess wax with one of the chopped up reeds so it looks like the sockets are all uniform. This will help to prevent water getting into the end grain and easier to clean after playing.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2007-01-29 16:53
fwiw,
i use murphy's oil soap on an old toothbrush. scrub it good, inside and out, then rinse with room temp tap water. if the posts are covered with corrosion, i scrub them with metal polish first, then rinse in tap water, then do the murhy's oil bit. then swab out with a cotton swab, wrap it up in a cotton cloth to dry the outside. pipe cleaner in the post holes to get the water out, light key oil on the springs, post holes, and any post set screw heads.
then i oil the bore with the doctor's products bore oil and let it sit overnight. if the oil is all adsorbed, i repeat the bore oil process for another day.
instruments like this i usually strip off the tenon cork first, as that usually needs replacing as well.
i haven't managed to crack one or rust up the metal parts yet.
others have different processes. YMMV.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-29 16:58
I soaked a bottle-cleaning type brush (of appropriate diameter) with liquid hand soap and water, cleaned the bore, cleaned the outside with an old toothbrush (likewise soaped), used q-tips for the tone holes. Then I quickly but thoroughly rinsed the joint and dried it immediately afterwards (blowing, swabbing and towelling). When it was completely dry (after 1 day) I oiled everything.
Worked for me.
--
Ben
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-01-29 17:21
(Disclaimer- I sell a wood cleaner, wax, and oil)
I would recommend using a wood cleaner designed for wood - some suggest Murphy's Oil Soap. Other than real dirt that can be rubbed or brushed off, the most tenacious grime is the dust, lint, and air pollutants which combine with oil in the wood to clog the wood pores responsible for transpiration of water vapor in and out of the wood. Indeed, the water balance and extreme hydraulic pressures that can build up in wood structure from water imbalance - too much or too little - IMO are a factor in cracking and are made worse by the clogged pores with the oily grime. Many detergents not formulated for cleaning wood can dissolve and remove too much oil out of the wood of instruments. IMO cleaning all areas as Chris and Paul have posted is a good idea and reoiling the wood after it is dry is necessary.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: Dan
Date: 2007-01-29 22:09
Thanks the info.
I checked out the Doctor web site and I think it's a good idea to use the exact produce made for the application.
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Author: cuscoclarinet
Date: 2007-01-30 18:34
Murphy's! 'Cause the dirt gets finished but the finish is fine!
The ironic part is, I'm doing my first wood body in a while after a drudgingly long series of resonite and rubber. I was thinking of getting a cleaner made specificly for clarinets until the responses to your posting Dan, then decided to go with the old standby instead. I use the "Murphy's Oil Soap surface cleaner" as I find it more gentle that the straight Murphy's (that's years of furniture making talking).
Sorry Doc, no offense, but you must remember that our ilk did something before your products were on the market!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-01-30 21:29
Experience is a great teacher, but if you have none you can rely on Doc's products. I also use Formby's lemon oil treatment.
Bob Draznik
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-01-30 21:47
(Disclaimer- I sell a wood cleaner, wax, and oil)
IMO Murphy's is a useful product for wood floors and is used by people to clean Granadilla instruments but for the most part wood in floors does not have a high oil content unless it is a wood like Teak. In my testing Murphy's removes a significant amount of oil from Granadilla - not as much as other detergent agents but it does remove oil. The expanded use and care instructions which I got from the maker indicate that it should not be used on oily woods and this may be why there are special cleaners specifically for woods like Teak and wooden instruments.
My conversations with conservators at several large museums indicate that they use formulations different than Murphy's for African Blackwood artifacts. Woodwind instruments are not ancient artifacts but IMO require a different cleaning formulation than Murphy's. I too cut my teeth as a paid antique furniture refinisher but rarely came across furniture that was made from oily woods but we had different cleaners for different woods but often used Murphy's in refinishing wood. Of the readily available products, as I noted, Murphy's is used to clean instruments and is better than say dish washing detergent. Obviously I sell a special cleaner but it is your instrument and your choice of what to use.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: mk
Date: 2007-01-31 01:37
hey...i put murphy's soap on my living room floors...ya'll are going to drive the market price up if you keep recomending it!....lol
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Author: cuscoclarinet
Date: 2007-01-31 14:53
While I do agree with you Henderson, that Murphy's does strip some of the oils of Grenadilla et.al, take note that I mentioned my use of thier surface cleaner (actually it's labeled "multi-use cleaner") as opposed to thier floor polish. I use this product specifically because it is more gentle and doesn't strip out so much of the oil.
As almost any product will strip some of the oil, and seeing as the next step down the line after cleaning is to oil the wood, AND seeing as this is not something I would do but maybe once in the life of an instrument (and only one that hasn't been cleaned as part of its daily care), I consider it safe enough.
Is it conservation? No, but it is preservation.
Conservation would bring a whole new level to our work, and honestly, I doubt there is a single music shop in the world that regularly does conservation of clarinets.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-01-31 16:29
(Disclaimer- I sell a wood cleaner, wax and wood oil)
Both products mentioned by Murphy's will remove some oil as noted - neither is a polish. The aim here is to remove as little oil as possible while still cleaning. IMO the natural oil in the wood is a much better preservative than even the best wood oil (bore oil) on the market and should be conserved wherever possible.
These "bore oils" too vary in the potential preservation properties, IMO, from the worst being the most common clear mineral oil to perhaps better exotic formulations emulating the oil used at the factory in manufacture or other preservative formulations.
Various types of non-intrinsic oils have been used for centuries to preserve wooden items with great success - e.g. (My most recent research) Alhambra (Spain, Granada) wooden ceilings (an interesting mix of exotic woods including African Blackwood species - CA 800) with olive oil formulations (not straight olive oil)- a Spanish museum conservator was on site cleaning and oiling the wood ceilings and willing to discuss her methods and historical research on wood preservation techniques used at Alhambra.
I mention museum conservator’s recommendations not because that is our task to preserve clarinets for thousands of years but because they have scientifically researched the best formulations to use to maintain wooden artifacts and preserve them. Often they must deal with trying to conserve both the natural oils in the wood but also oils applied over time that have been used to preserve the wood which may be more easily stripped than the wood's intrinsic oil.
I am not trying to dun experienced technician's practices or product choices but only to indicate that scientific and historical research may be able to suggest potentially better products and tools to work with - this is a continuing quest for me anyway. IMO a new acronym applies - IIAWFYTBAMCUSBCA (If it already works for you then by all means continue until something better comes along).
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: pewd
Date: 2007-02-01 00:45
I recently purchased some of Doctor Henderson's wood cleaner,but haven't had occassion to try it yet.
Will do so on my next restoration and report back ; spring break most likely.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2007-02-01 12:05
>>Don't immerse it with soap or water. >>
In general, I agree with that advice--and I'd never use soap on a clarinet. I've been using Murphy's. But, for the wooden instrument that's gotten truly filthy, I do sometimes put the sections under lukewarm water, for a brief period of time--with the keys, rods and screws removed first. (I wash those separately.) I never *soak* a clarinet in the water. I only put it under long enough to get it clean.
To avoid damaging the wood, I've modified a couple of bore brushes, thick and thin, by sewing flannel sacks. Each sack fits very loosely over the bottle-brush and the rod that's made of twisted metal. The tip of the sack is extra-thick so that no hard tip of the bottle brush can scratch the inside of the clarinet bore. The sack turns the brush into something that works more like a dishrag. It's easy to remove the sacks and throw them in the laundry after the innards of a clarinet dirty them up. I think this procedure, which lifts most grime quickly, is actually less rough on the clarinet than scrubbing, and scrubbing, and scrubbing with a damp brush. When I'm done, I make sure the clarinet is very thoroughly dry, inside and out, before oiling it and then getting to work on the keys and putting everything back together.
By the way, Bill Weaver, proprietor of Weaver's Violins, the oldest violin restoration business in the Washington, D. C. area, sold my husband a print of a wonderful 19th century etching of a man walking into his house and, with a look of extreme horror on his face, catching his housekeeper in the act of scrubbing his cello, in a washtub full of suds! Bill told Kevin the dirty little secret: Yes, of course, a prolonged soak can destroy a wooden instrument, but when he finds one that's in "grandpa's basement" condition, with ancient, blackened rosin clotted all over the belly, he does put the disassembled fiddle underwater to clean it. We're talking about fiddles worth tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars here. That's one reason why I don't panic too much about dunking a filthy old clarinet.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2007-02-01 12:12)
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Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2007-02-02 03:37
Chris,
Do you REALLY remove all the posts from a clarinet body to clean it? Although I've never had a problem, I always felt like I was risking the threads coming out, especially on an old clarinet.
jeff
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Author: cuscoclarinet
Date: 2007-02-02 14:37
Lelia,
in your post you mention Bill Weaver's method of cleaning-
"when he finds one that's in "grandpa's basement" condition, with ancient, blackened rosin clotted all over the belly, he does put the disassembled fiddle underwater to clean it"
-after hearing that I can only sumise that A) Mr. Weaver was pulling your husband's leg, B) your husband was mistaken as to Mr. Weaver's methods, or C) your husband needs to find a new violin tech!
My girlfriend is a luthier, as are a large number of our friends (sort of strange that after a long career in fine woodworking that I wound up in clarinets with all these luthiers about! Guess I'm just the "black horn" of the family@;->) and not one of them has ever heard of completely dissasembling a violin or submerging any part of it in water.
One must take into account that a violin has parts (the table, corner blocks, end block and linings) that are made of soft wood, the ribs are steam bent curves and often barely more that 1mm thick, and that all the glue joints are easily water soluble hide glue. Submerging materials like this for ANY length of time would seriously damage them!
As for clarinets, well, we're talking a different animal altogether. As they're generally made from very oily woods, are generally somewhere around 8.5mm thick and a closed structure, I wouldn't take any issue with rinsing them off under the tap. Even still, I'd never fully submerge one as I really see no use in it. Even if it's been in "grandpa's basement" taking a soft brush and the right detergents should remove all of the grunge. The rather cursory rinsing is just to remove the soap and lifted off filth.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-02-02 15:50
Hi Jeff,
Usually the pillars are fairly loose on an older clarinet and will come undone with ease - if not, then heat the pillars in a flame and undo them. I've rarely encountered threads stripping, though they're easy enough to sort out if they do - with SUPERGLUE!
Make yourself a pair of pliers with a hollow indentation (the same diameter as a pillar head, but not too deep) in both jaws so they can grip the pillar heads without flattening.
If the thread is completely stripped, then the pillar hole can be opened out and a wooden or plastic bush glued in (with SUPERGLUE), the hole drilled and the thread re-cut.
Just overdoing the SUPERGLUE motif here to wind up our little friend.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-02-02 15:58
Zap, Grip and the all-time favourite - Loctite.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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