 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-01-26 20:59
At school, I'm first chair in our Wind Ensemble. For our concert festival, we will be playing In Storm and Sunshine, Molly on the Shore, and Scootin' on Hardrock. Well on Molly on the Shore, those of you have played it know that it requires a very solid clarinet section. Out of the whole section, I put in the most work which probably indicates why I'm first. The rest of the section stays after school and we help each other or have our band director help us on rhythms that we can't play and so forth. Well the girl who is second chair doesn't and says to me that she( and i quote) "has a life and has no time to practice" like the rest of us. She constantly is making mistakes throughout all the songs and we've had the music since mid November now. She has been giving me the excuse of school work, work, etc and that she doesn't intend on practicing anytime soon. Everytime I talk to her about it, she gets defensive. I do not talk to her in a way to make her feel bad. I understand people are sensitive so I try my best to be too. She said that whenever Dr. Marx from UNC-Charlotte comes to critique us is when she's going to practice, which is imo stupid. So on to my main point, the point has been made clear to my director today afterschool that she doesn't practice and doesn't intend to as he overheard her talking. My main concern now after that is that on Molly on the Shore there are 3 clarinet solos. Or really just 2 and a little line to end the song. She insists on trying to play all the solos with me even though she can't play them. On one solo she doesn't use the LH C key and it drives me nuts. She gave me the excuse today that her key doesn't work and blaw blaw(she is the same girl with the spoiled pads, clarinet swells up all the time, middle joint and top joint dont go together all the way, uses rico reeds...you get me) Well I have come to the conclusion I need to talk to my director about how she is literally holding us back. We've played the solo together for so long that he told us it's too loud and when i said it was a solo he said oh i forgot. Well its about darn time things are set straight considering festival is in 6 weeks. I'd really like to actually PLAY the solo by myself just so I can get individual feedback from him. The thing is I don't know how to ask him or talk to him. Any ideas on how to approach this or should I leave it like this or what?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bufclar
Date: 2007-01-27 01:15
You are in a sense the concertmaster of the ensemble and should feel free to speak to the director in a professional and respectful manner. I have played Molly on the shore at least 5 times going through high school and college in both band and orchestra and it is ridculous to play any of the solos with another person. It should just be you playing.....two people playing is crazy. Just ask the conductor what he thinks about you playing it by yourself before you say anything about the other player. I would only complain about her as a last resort.
Good luck and I hope you have a great concert!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brandon
Date: 2007-01-27 01:21
Being a current band director, I would imagine that your director is trying to give the student the benefit of the doubt. I would bet that the week before or the week of the festival the director will make a decision. No director is going to set the students up for failure, and will certainly not risk a lowered festival score! Remember too that everyone has an agenda for being in band. Some like the director. Some want to be the next big orchestral player. Others just like the friendship. My advice is to just play the notes the best you can and let the politics play out. Trust me when I say that the director knows who is playing the right notes and who isn't!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-01-27 01:29
Has your director not given you any -- umm -- "direction" about this? Has he explicitly asked for two of you to be playing on the solo?
I mean, it's possible that the director isn't paying that much attention (he "forgot" it was a solo?), or that other things more egregious are demanding his attention. But since it is bothering you, I guess that makes it your problem (even though it sounds like it ought to be his problem, as well).
If I were you, I suppose I would go to him privately and ask what he is thinking in regard to the passages in question -- does he want to have both of you playing, or just one of you? It should not be a problem (I hope) for him to say, in rehearsal, "Oh, Stacie, let's just have Melvin take that line for now." (If he's not up to that, then your problem is bigger than this particular issue.)
But in general, it is much easier to deal with a specific problem than with a global issue. I would suggest that in talking to him, don't go much beyond the point in question -- i.e., I would not extrapolate the specific issue --"she's playing on top of the solo lines which I think are probably supposed to be mine" -- to the general conclusion that "she is literally holding us back". Take it one step at a time, no matter how aggravated you might feel.
Susan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-01-27 01:41
Thanks for the replies guys. Well he has played this song before and there has never been a solo controversy. I have been first chair since day one, but on the first day of reading the song we read it together. After I played the solo a couple of times alone and it sounded decent I assume she was jealous of me. The director has never said he wants both of us to play. I never agreed on that either. He knows I play the solo better than her but as you said, hes giving her the benefit of the doubt which I believe is right but not this far in to the time frame where we've had the piece for months now and she still has difficulty playing the opening. She has already admitted that I WILL play the first and last solo because "she sucks at them" but still insists on playing them with me. The 2nd solo, she wants to play because it's a whole lot easier than the other ones. But she still can't play it and it bothers me that she acts like shes queen and I've been having this on my mind for months now but 6weeks is really close and I just can't let this happen anymore. Anymore advice would be great =]
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: LeeB
Date: 2007-01-27 04:03
<<<Well the girl who is second chair doesn't and says to me that she( and i quote) "has a life and has no time to practice" like the rest of us. She constantly is making mistakes throughout all the songs and we've had the music since mid November now. She has been giving me the excuse of school work, work, etc and that she doesn't intend on practicing anytime soon. Everytime I talk to her about it, she gets defensive. I do not talk to her in a way to make her feel bad. I understand people are sensitive so I try my best to be too.>>>
I assume this is high school. Reading your posts gave me a flashback to those days. It's definitely an awkward age, for a lot of reasons. I think you're generally going to need to defer to the band director, and let him/her call the shots. In a high school band program at a normal school, you're going to have a wide range of students with a wide range of talent and motivation. There are going to be real achievers, like yourself, and others who like the experience of band, but will not put the effort into it. Sometimes, people like this get moved to the lower instruments. Maybe you could get her interested in playing contra alto.
Beyond this, I know I'm going to sound a little bit like "Dear Abby" here, but is there a slight possibility that you kind of like this person? From what you've written, you've obviously been doing a fair amount of thinking about her and her life. As I said, it's an awkward age, and a lot of emotions can come into play. Personally, I was extremely shy in HS, but I definitely had some crushes on other band members. Is there any possibility that getting wound up about this situation is really an attempt to get her attention? If so, I might suggest that there are better ways to do this.
By all means, pursue excellence in your own performance. As you move into college and possibly into the professional realm, you'll increasingly be in situations where everyone is pulling their weight. Just be a bit patient. Let the band director sort (or not sort) this current situation out based on the guidelines he/she has for this specific music program.
HS band is a unique experience for most students. Don't overlook the social aspects. You'll most likely be spending more time with your band mates than any other students in your school. I'm 51 years old, and though I went on to college and the world of a professional musician, I am still in regular contact with many of my band and choir members from HS (I even maintain a mail list for them). I regularly have breakfast with my former HS choir director. Keep in mind that these are friendships that can last a lifetime. Some of the not-so-hot players turned out to be very interesting people.
Right now, you're living through what will someday be "the good old days" for you. Down the road, when you're first clarinet in a major orchestra, I can guarantee you that you'd rather not have a memory of a big squabble you had with the second chair clarinetist.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sylvangale
Date: 2007-01-27 04:07
Prepare for a solo split if the girl has any charm and the teacher is susceptible!
If the solo is split there probably isn't much you can do except talk to the director sincerely (without attacking the other girl) on how you've practiced really hard and that you at least wanted to play that second solo section, as it was your favorite and you worked REALLY hard on it.
Benefits of taking the "easy" part: pleasure of the girl mucking up the hard part in public, the possibility you could get the hard part back from the director or the girl after enough muck ups, the girl could also shape up leading to a better section overall, or you could be the better person by offering to swap parts if the girl doesn't shape up after a while... possibly opening the girl up to being more personable.
Regards,
Stephen
♫ Stephen K.
Post Edited (2007-01-27 04:12)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2007-01-27 11:51
Pure speculation, but.... Maybe the director is using that shared solo to pressure the young woman to practice. He may perceive that she's capable of playing much better than she does play. He may hope that, rather than sound bad in front of an audience, she will quit making excuses and do the work. (He may be dreaming....) It's possible he even plans to punish her for failing to practice by waiting until the last minute and then asking her, in front of the group, to lay back on the solo and let you take it alone, in the hope that the embarrassment will shock her into revising her work habits.
Fwiw, though, I agree with the people who think that you should talk to the director. Just be careful not to sound as if you're simply jealous and hogging the spotlight. In your situation, I'd go the info-geek route: take the published score with you as a prop, show him the passage in the score, marked as a solo, and name as many recordings as you possibly can in which just one clarinet takes that solo. I've never heard a recording of it with more than one clarinet on the part and the fact that you're arguing for playing the composer's original intention will weigh in your favor. I'd leave second chair out of the discussion altogether. The director can hear her inferior playing for himself. It's more dignified to take the high road and talk to him about what you want to do with the music, not about what you want him to do about her.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D
Date: 2007-01-27 13:55
Can't you just play one solo each and then both cover the end? That would seem to be a fair way of dividing it. Perhaps suggest cheerfully that you toss a coin for who gets the second and who gets the first solo. She might even back down and tell you to play both. But at least it is an inoffensive way to raise the point that it is supposed to be a solo.
All you can really do at this point is to be the very best that you can be. Don't let her control the way you behave with the way she does. You can't change her, but you can change the way you react to her. There are always going to be weaker players and stronger players. You just have to make sure that you are the one everyone looks up to both for your playing, and for your professionalism.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sockmonkey70
Date: 2007-01-28 03:04
I was second chair in my highschool band and our band director usually split the 1st part solo's between me and the 1st chair..She of course got the best solo's, unless she was feeling generous and tossed me an extra part
It is beneficial for the 2nd chair to know the solo's though becuase you never know who is giong to get sick! 1st chair players aren't immune to strep throat, which our band found out one year when our 1st chair trumpet missed State festival!
Usually, if we had a person who was "too busy to practice", they generally wouldn't be in the top half of the clarinet section. Our band director would give us chair tests and place us accordingly..but if he saw someone was slacking they could lose their chair. How did she do so well on her chair test?
Actually..If we weren't performing and coming to section practice he would PULL people from even going to festival..
Post Edited (2007-01-28 03:13)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-01-28 04:30
She slacked all the way throughout chair testing too. I beat her by a landslide. The problem is our band director is biased. I get perfect scores on my scales every year at auditions but he has only given me the highest a 93 on my scales. He doesn't take into account things really. The first week I was boomin and then all of a sudden my scores drop from 93s to 90s and my scales were the same quality. The highest he ever gave anyone this year was a 94. He knows she slacks but he won't do anything about it. He is TOO nice of a band director. I don't mind giving her a solo but it would be now to know that she can play it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-01-28 04:55
I can't tell you what to do, but I can say what I would do - nothing. I personally wouldn't say anything about her to the band director, and just play my best regardless. I would be as kind as I can to the girl you are talking about and IMHO it is more important than, let's say, have a better concert, etc.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2007-01-28 17:28
Quite bluntly: Suck it up and don't whine - high school band is relatively meaningless.
In the over all picture of life (and musical) experiences, high school band, for most people carried little or no weight and certainly had no bearing to later success or failure.
There will soon come much bigger challenges, both personal and academic. High school decisions will be petty by comparison.
Did we all have to make musical choices in high school? Were many of the days (weeks) in band less than pleasant? Were we scarred for life? Did we all somehow live to tell about it?
For some, like myself, high school band is just a distant memory, not because of years gone by, but through more substantial and formative musical experiences which followed.
Sometimes it is like the "can't see the forest for the trees" analogy. In a few years, when firmly entrenched in college, this seemingly major problem will be nothing more than a mild annoyance...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D
Date: 2007-01-28 18:01
GBK, was that a long way of saying 'it's only going to get worse from here on in............'
*ducks and runs away*
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2007-01-28 19:05
D wrote:
> GBK, was that a long way of saying 'it's only going to get
> worse from here on in............'
...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ginny
Date: 2007-01-28 19:17
I would also advise you to just do your very best and let the band director take care of it. If she sucks he looks bad and she does, it doesn't make you play better or worse.
My son was first chair at his high school in the top band of three, he didn't think much about what others did although he would cheerfully help anyone who asked. He has always concentrated on his playing, his work. And he plays beautifully without making band a misery for others or trying to prove he was top dog. Bands would be pleasanter for everyone with a little more of this. I have a fellow I move away from because he seems more concerned about my playing than his own and it is very distracting. Happily he's gone.
Let the director take care of it, it's his band. If she is as bad as you claim she will not be playing second chair for long anyway. Problem solved without drama.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: LeeB
Date: 2007-01-28 21:56
<<<For some, like myself, high school band is just a distant memory, not because of years gone by, but through more substantial and formative musical experiences which followed.>>>
Exactly.
I think people need to remember that although it's wonderful if a school can put together an outstanding ensemble, the real goal of high school band is to provide a musical education for all the participants. For those heading toward being professional musicians, it's important to remember that those lesser players will be more prone to buying tickets to the orchestra than those who had no exposure to musical performance at all.
I think it would be a lot more productive to take all the energy expended in fretting about this situation, and channel it into creating excellence in artistic situations where you have more control, and can call the shots. Form a chamber group with other outstanding, like-minded students. Or, tackle some challenging music with an excellent piano accompanist. When you think about it, there's really nothing holding you back.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: joeyscl
Date: 2007-01-29 01:27
My advice is... IF she still Insists on playing it, let her play it.
1) if she can play it, GREAT!
2) if she can't, then its by no means your fault. Its not your fault that your Band Director is too easy going and doesn't care how your band sounds. It's not your fault that she doesn't practice and makes up excuses for her inability to play her part. It's not your fault that your band director wouldn't listen to your comments. I mean, if you've tried Everything to get her to practice it and have her play it in an atleast half decent manner or have her not play at all, and she insists on playing it (poorly), then atleast you've done your share of the work to try to improve your band.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-01-29 14:17
You said "he is too nice of a band director." I think that is the key. I've worked with directors who really don't want to hurt people's feelings to the point that the whole band suffers.
I advise you to go talk to him and be very respectful when you do (you seem like a very nice and respectful person so I'm sure you'll do that). Simply remind him that these are written to be solos and you would appreciate his reminding her NOT to play with you on them. I take it that you have already asked her not to play on them and it hasn't done any good. You have 6 weeks for him to "remember" to talk to her. In the meantime, each time you rehearse the piece lean over and remind her not to play over the solo. If she gives you flak about it remind the director that these are solos.
It's very difficult to play in a band that has a director that simply can't confront people because he/she is afraid of losing their "favor." In a school situation he probably feels he can fix his problem with grades--I mean by report card scores--and that will do it. However, he's doing a disservice by not honoring the written score and calling for solos to be solos.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Merlin
Date: 2007-01-29 15:12
It's just high school band, and no matter HOW good it is...it's still a high school band.
Focus on playing your best, and blending with the people you have to play with.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: johnnymo0829
Date: 2007-01-29 16:40
The next time you go to play the solo with the group fake a reed problem, drop out and let her screw it up. The teacher will hear it, stop the group, ask what happened, then yell at her for not having it ready to play. Then he should ask you to make sure to play it from now on. She will panic and be embarrassed and not do it anymore
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2007-01-29 21:29
I agree with GBK......really, it's not your business, it's the directors.
jbutler
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-01-29 23:09
Thanks you guys. Brenda, she is reminded everyday about this by me. It only results in her yelling at me, so I stopped because it embarrasses me in front of everyone. I think what it could be is that my director sees more talent and the willingness to practice than her but he just doesn't want to give up on her. He really has his favorites, but he has two types. The type he fusses at for playing something wrong and the type he never fusses at. The whole reed problem faking her playing it, I tried that already. All he does is start back over after I'm ready. I figured if in the next two weeks she won't stop, this is something I'll probably talk to him about. I really want to get a superior this year considering I've never gotten anything but an excellent.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2007-01-30 00:24
For you, it's really a question of what you're committed to.
I have to say that I can't judge from what you write whether you are someone whose integrity I would want to support -- or whether you are just someone I would want to dismiss as a troublemaker. Both are possible.
However, in the abstract, I'd like to say that being true to your vision of the music is the most important thing. If 'how it is' is painful to you, then the choice is 'doing something about it' -- versus 'leaving'.
Remember that the only reason music is EVER well-played is that around it there are people willing to STAND UP for it being well-played, as opposed to 'enjoying themselves' -- or letting others enjoy themselves.
Tony
Post Edited (2007-01-30 00:26)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-01-30 00:42
GBK wrote: "Quite bluntly: Suck it up and don't whine - high school band is relatively meaningless.
In the over all picture of life (and musical) experiences, high school band, for most people carried little or no weight and certainly had no bearing to later success or failure."
Holy cow - I don't even know how to respond to that. I just got back from all-state band with two of my students - both clarinet players. When they came into my high school band, they knew almost nothing about music, repertoire, playing in tune, phrasing, the list goes on and on. In our "relatively meaningless" high school band, they have played music by Husa, Stravinsky, Holst, Copland, Whitacre, Grainger - in four years, there are too many great pieces to recount. They leave me as relatively accomplished musicians for their age - they have learned to play musically, to identify harmony and structure, to analyze composers and to apply correct style to pieces. They listen for balance, blend and intonation. When they came to me, they could barely hack their way through Rubank 1 - now, they are both going on to become music majors at very prestigious colleges - something that had not entered their minds before they came to my high school band. That doesn't sound like 4 "relatively meaningless" years to me. I feel bad that for you, and many others, high school band was 4 meaningless years. For others, it can be (and should be) 4 years of meaningful discovery of the joy of playing music at a very high level. If it sounds like I took offense to your comments - I sure did, although I am certain you meant no offense when you made them.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2007-01-30 01:18
There are certainly those who had enriching experiences playing during their high school years. Those band directors who have motivated students to achieve far beyond their dreams should be applauded.
For a select few, an All State or All County ensemble is a memory, both musical and social which will be fondly recalled in later years.
However, I have seen more than a fair share of mediocre to poor band programs, with uninspired, incompetent directors just "putting in their time." How many of these kids will look back on those years as a worthwhile experience?
Relatively meaningless? You bet.
If you are having a problem in your high school band, it is just like the way it is going to be later in life:
Because, as I've said before:
"Life’s not fair; get used to it. Sometimes all you can do is put up with it for a while."
...GBK (former high school, junior high and elementary band director)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-01-30 01:24
Our high school band program is one of the most reputable in the state Concert Band wise and Marching Band wise. We have 30 Superiors in only 12 years of going to festival so that means we haven't gotten a superior only a few years. We usually have at least 5 people trying out for all state, this year 8 of them, myself included. We usually have players with scholarships who end up being music majors. Sadly enough, the kids who want to excel, excel because of what our director has taught us and their own will. He is an AMAZING director with a very profound knowledge but over they year's he has gotten nicer and nicer to kids and people take advantage of him. He used to test you every week to see if you practiced...not anymore. His standards of excellence imo, have slowly lowered. We are a very talented program but there are the certain individuals who hold us back. People who only are in band to go to the trips to Disney World or Philadelphia(Nov 2007 Thanksgiving ABC/Boscov) or whatever they see in it. They don't appreciate it for what it is.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-01-30 19:29
There is no part of life that is "relatively meaningless." This is particularly true for the high school years during which hormones are raging, emotions are made strong or damaged, and significant decisions are made concerning directions in the future. So, as far as that goes, it is not a meaningless time. If the typical high school musical experience is not highly important as judged by a vast world scale, then perhaps. But, many people would love to take back those years (just not have to go through them again) and fix the bad decisions made during them. I personally would have studied more and made better grades in subjects OTHER than band, drama and English and spent less time worrying.
In other words, what you are doing at this time and place will somewhat mold your future in how you view yourself and how others view you. Be kind and considerate of your classmate, but keep on trying and practicing to be the best you can be. You've asserted your position well enough. Now, as mentioned by others, let the director bear the responsibility for what the piece ends up sounding like. You can still take satisfaction from the fact that you are playing your part as well as possible at this time.
Hang in there. High School will pass soon enough.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2007-01-31 20:25
Thanks all. I think this thread has taught me what to focus on more. So now the First and Last solos are mine but today she yelled at me in the middle of class for playing the second one and i just didnt say anything and my director called us out and fussed at us. I later apologized to him after class because I felt like I interrupted his class without me actually doing it. I'll just make sure it never happens again. I've definitely learned how to deal with these types of situations
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
