 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: nahoj
Date: 2007-01-23 21:53
Hi,
I have some very specific questions on the Leblanc 'paperclip' 350 EEb contra-alto clarinet (to low C)
First of all, I like playing the instrument A LOT. I asked some experienced clarinetists, some of them playing bass clarinet as well, which instrument usually plays easiest, a soprano or a bass, and they all say a bass plays/should play more difficult. I've played 2 different Bb soprano's, and occasionally a Bb bass and an Eb soprano and to my limited experience the contra plays A LOT easier than all of them (smoother, easier intonation). (Only the high C and C# are rather difficult.)
Do you think that's normal? Should I check my soprano?
I've only been playing the soprano for 3.5 years, the contra for a year, so you can classify me as a beginner..
I use Nr.2 Vandooren and a Selmer contrabass C* mouthpiece with a std ligature. I understand from these fora that that is a very basic setup, but it's working fine for me. None the less, is there any possible improvement in that? What first? It is difficult to experiment around, as mouthpieces, reeds and ligatures have to be ordered for these instruments. They are never available in the shop.
And then a technical question. On these contras, the low C and C* thumb keys do not close the other low keys (D, D#, E, F). You have to use your left hand/pink on the D key to close them. It would be logic to me that the C# closes them all, so you have your left pink available as well as your right, for the next note. Now it's possible but very tricky (using your hand palm for D) to play left low E or middle C# after low C# and virtually impossible to play left low F or F#.
Is there any technical reason, except simpler keywork, to keep the low C# seperated from the other keys? To my knowledge, no fingering chart asks for the low C or C# to be closed while low D..F are open.
I'm thinking it's a historical reason. I've seen paperclip contralto's to low D. Low C was very probably added on later (holes were moved a little for tuning reasons, you can easily see this at the lower bend, where the low G# hole is more centered in the bend on the low C version).
Thanks for your reactions,
johan.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-23 22:16
Leblanc low C bass clarinets also have the low Db and low C keys seperated from the rest of the mechanism, so I suppose in a way they're being consistant in using this same system on their contras - though I too would prefer that the low C# closed all the pad cups above it using just one touch instead of having to close the low D in conjunction with the low C# or C.
As for finding it much easier to play than a Bb (soprano), good on you! Don't feel you have to struggle if you don't want to. Keep things as easy for yourself as they can be so you can concentrate on how and what you're playing instead of worrying about if this or that note won't speak with this or that strength of reed or mouthpiece. If you enjoy what you're doing then that's all that matters.
Keep up the good work.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2007-01-23 23:23
Maybe you are a natural contra player... What's wrong with that?
I have a Grabner contra mouthpiece that plays like a dream. Combine with Rovner ligature and Legere reeds.
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Author: William Hughes ★2017
Date: 2007-01-24 14:00
I mainly use Legere reeds (baritone sax) 2 1/4 or 2 1/2 and a Rovner ligature on my C* mouthpiece (Selmer Bundy Contra Alto), but I also use VanDorens from time to time and like the sound they produce. I too find the contra easier for me than any other member of the family.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-01-24 15:42
I'm a natural contra player too. I just wrap my face around it and blow.
The paperclip key mechanism is complicated and cranky enough without adding more connections. Scores calling for the low C and C# on the Eb instrument are uncommon enough (I've never seen one) that I guess Leblanc didn't see a need for additional keywork. If lower notes are needed, composers write for the BBb instrument.
Also, the original BBb paperclip contras went down only to D. (I'm not sure about the Eb paperclip.) The current ones have the C# and C pads on a removable extension and, except for that and the thumb keys, are identical to the original model. Adding a connection would involve changing Leblanc's design. They sell so few that I suppose it wasn't worth the cost.
Many players feel that removing that extension (and also the bell) on the BBb paperclip improves the response, though I've never noticed any difference on mine or others I've played. It would be worth trying on the Eb.
Ken Shaw
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Author: LCL
Date: 2007-01-24 19:04
I second the posts of Ken & BassetHorn! I have a 340 paperclip contra-bass, a Selmer 40 EEb Contra-alto and a Leblanc 430 Low-C BC. Of the three the Selmer is the easiet to play by far.
LCL
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Author: nahoj
Date: 2007-01-25 19:36
Hi Ken,
My paperclip contralto to low C is in one piece. I've seen pictures of many different contraltos. Some are to low D (the bell ends halfway, the low G# hole is off-centre in the bottom bend), some are to low C (bell ends at the top, low G# hole is almost perfectly centered in the bottom bend). But some are to low D with, as you describe, a removable low C extension with the C and C# hole. The low G# hole is also off-centre. So I presume those instruments are either equiped with custom-made extensions or they are early low C solutions from Leblanc. The position of the G# hole shows that the hole positioning was altered to make the one-piece-low-C in tune / give it better response and this might explain why the extension-models may be better in tune / may have better response without the extension.
And I need my low C and C# as I sometimes play the contrabassoon part in a local orchestra. As low as it goes, so sometimes I have to play an octave higher... :(
j
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