 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tedm
Date: 2007-01-19 18:50
On one of our Artley 17S's, had the ring on the 2nd piece come loose. The ring is now attached (by light pressure only, can be pulled loose) to the first piece (that the mouthpiece barrel attaches to and is held by the left hand).
When assembled, it plays fine, but of course we want it fixed, and to have the ring attached to the 2nd piece where it belongs.
Does anyone know if this is a DIY thing with loctite or other adhesive, or if it is a job for the shop, and if so, what would an estimated charge be on getting this attached right?
We're in no hurry, as we have a spare Artley (and Buffet). Thanks!
2 Artley 17S & 1 Buffet B12 Crampon
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Author: Escsrc
Date: 2007-01-19 20:25
It'd be best to take it to a shop. I once had a ring replaced for about 40 or so (it was alongside a re-pad, so I'm estimating based on other repads I've had with my tech). Not really a huge deal, but if its doing anything odd, best to have the techie take a look!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-19 20:58
Superglue it back on - apply a thin layer of superglue to the recess then put the ring back on, making sure you have the ring the right way up.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tedm
Date: 2007-01-19 21:39
Thanks Chris, and all, exactly what I needed to know.
2 Artley 17S & 1 Buffet B12 Crampon
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Author: mk
Date: 2007-01-20 01:30
i have no problem using super glue on an artley....not a great solution to loose ring problems for higher end instruments.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-20 07:31
Superglue knows no bounds.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-01-20 20:13
A GOOD one, Hank ! Rather than a "permanent" bonding, prob. occuring in dry winter weather, I prefer to cut a narrow strip of newsprint, hold it in place while re-seating the ring [which likely is tapered {or the slot is tapered} so put it back on the same way as removed {the "loose" way}]. My description could be improved ? Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: tedm
Date: 2007-01-20 20:29
Hi Don,
Not quite sure I understand. The ring apparently came loose from either it's previous factory glued or pressure fit (yes it's slightly tapered) mount, and it seems like it should be permanently on there on the 2nd piece so you can see the cork on the first piece, and apply cork grease and all to it.
I just don't see any downsides of permanently attaching the ring to the piece it's supposed to be on, and I do realize humidity changes affect materials differently, but low or high humidity, this ring just simply belongs on the 2nd piece.
Am I missing something on why this shouldn't just be permanently put on the 2nd piece?? on this student plastic (resonite?) Artley? Thanks.
2 Artley 17S & 1 Buffet B12 Crampon
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-20 20:30
For applications with no stressed members (except eg wood), I often use PVA glue as it stays somewhat elastic and can be removed in warm water. (and if PVA doesn't work, I can still resort to superglue).
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-20 20:32
Newspaper is a good fix - and chances are if it goes on and stays on, there's no need to remove it.
Yamaha suggest bonding cloth and tapping the ring back on - but cloth is too thick and can cause the socket to narrow.
If using paper, cover the entire socket with it (so it resembles a drum) and tap the ring down 3/4 of the way, cut off all the paper from the top and around the circumference of the ring slot imediately below the ring, then tap the ring home so there's no paper left showing.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-01-20 20:49
TKS, Chris, your post prob. answers tedm's question, the only plastics I deal with anymore are minor repairs/tweaking for schoolies, so I was thinking of wood barrels/bells where expansion under higher humidity conditions might make removal of a paper "shim" desireable to avoid cracking, bells in partic. The bell's bottom ring is another matter [get skilled help!]. I am humidifying my good woods now, as prev. discussed here. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-20 20:55
The bottom ring needs a large collet the correct diameter to tighten it, and probably a fair amount of brute force as well!
Touch wood (grenadilla), my Series 9 bells have now stabilised - even with the central heating on. So no rattling bell rings so far this winter.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: mk
Date: 2007-01-21 02:25
your wrong about superglue...its the duct tape that you were thinking of!
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Author: mk
Date: 2007-01-21 02:28
i am in agreement with this technique.....why didn't you mention it in the first place......
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-21 08:42
This is a plastic clarinet, not a wooden one - so there's no need to use paper on it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Detru Cofidin
Date: 2007-01-21 17:37
super glue would work, but I've always used sulifane (sp?). You just take a piece and rap it around wear the ring fits on, and then put the ring on over it and cut excess away. This way it won't come off without some forcing and it won't be stuck on permanently.
Nicholas Arend
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Author: mk
Date: 2007-01-23 02:42
pva...hmmmm poly vinyl something other (adhesive???) .....can't you tell i love organic chemistry?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-23 08:32
Definitely not PVA - it's water soluble.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-23 11:43
"... but I've always used sulifane (sp?)."
Cellophane?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-23 12:15
> Definitely not PVA - it's water soluble.
I assumed a ring on the outside isn't subject to a lot of water...
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-23 12:33
Even so, but PVA glue contains water and will make the wood swell when in contact with it and possibly constrict the socket due to the pressure.
I stuck the fabric down in my case with PVA after altering it to take the longer bottom joints (full Boehms) but used the case before the glue had fully dried which caused a rough and raised area on one of the bells. But no lasting harm was done as when it all dried out it went back to normal.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tedm
Date: 2007-01-23 17:50
thanks all, the super glue worked fine. We notice it a tad tighter fit, even with liberal cork grease, but still not as tight as the bell fitting always has been, so we're fine. Works like new, and looks perfect.
2 Artley 17S & 1 Buffet B12 Crampon
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-23 19:51
> Even so, but PVA glue contains water and will make the wood swell when
> in contact with it and possibly constrict the socket due to the pressure.
Especially on a plastic clarinet. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
Water is the solvent in PVA and will eventually evaporate.
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-23 21:51
But you wouldn't use PVA on a plastic clarinet as it doesn't stick to plastic.
Or metal.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-23 22:31
> But you wouldn't use PVA on a plastic clarinet as it doesn't stick to plastic.
> Or metal.
It does. Not enough to glue a thumbrest on, but certainly enough to keep a ring in place. Or, in a pinch, a pad.
--
Ben
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