 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: M09
Date: 2007-01-14 18:41
Hi,
I am hoping someone can help with this... I have a bass clarinet that I would like to find out about. It is marked 'Lafleur made in France, distributer Boosey and Hawkes London'. I have come across Lafleur before, but only czech instruments nothing made in France.
I got it for only a few pounds. No case, missing pads bought from someone who had it left as part of a house clearance, they didn't event know what it was! I fixed it up and it plays beautifully, very warm and responsive and particularly good at staying in tune. I just can't find out any info on Lafleur made in france. Any help appreciated!
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2007-01-14 19:25
I, too have tried to find out who in France was stenciling instruments for B&H. I have a French built Lafleur bassoon with the German (rather than French) keying system, posted a query about it on the bassoon forum, and got some speculative answers, but nothing definitive. Maybe one of the more senior UK or French techs has a some first hand experience with the French made B&H instruments and can inform us about them. Eu
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Author: M09
Date: 2007-01-14 19:29
Thanks for replying! I have read your post, it was the thing that brought me to these pages actually and is only place I could find lafleur and france on the same page. I have not found anything related to clarinets yet. My clarinet has a standard Boehm key system.
Hopefully we will both get some help with this
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2007-01-14 19:37
I tried googling to find out about French made B&H instruments but struck out there, couldn't find them in the archives, and a fellow in London who worked for B&H back in the 1960's was checking with B&H but I never have heard back from him. The company, I would suppose, probably has records extant on where they bought their French built horns. Getting in to see them might be a problem? Eu
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-01-14 23:29
Boosey & Hawkes "Edgware" bass clarinets are made by Robert Malerne; not sure about the "Lafleur" model but I wouldn't be surprised if it were the same Malerne (the same bass clarinet marketed under at least a dozen other brands including King, Conn, Olds, Evette, Lyon & Healy, SML/Marigaux, etc.). If you can throw a picture up I'll be able to tell immediately if it's a Malerne stencil.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-14 23:38
I'll have a guess and say it may be a Malerne as they made 'Lafleur' instruments for B&H - I've seen various Malerne woodwinds (mainly clarinets, oboes and cors anglais) with a multitude of names for the UK market, but were all from the same make.
If you could post some photos (detailed ones of the keywork, especially the bottom joint RH little ginger cluster) then we could tell you for sure.
One of my work colleagues has an old Malerne bass, so I can compare them.
But some Lafleur instruments were made by Amati, B&S, Orsi and even flutes from one of the Taiwanese factories as well. I think some other Lafleur flutes were possibly made by Rampone&Cazzani.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-01-15 05:03
You're correct, Chris P, but as M09's b.c. is marked "Made in France", it couldn't be from any of the other manufacturers you list in your last sentence.
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Author: M09
Date: 2007-01-15 18:59
Thanks, that's great.
when I am home I will sort out some pictures.
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Author: M09
Date: 2007-01-17 19:29
I have sorted out some photos. I didn't use a brilliant camera but may be able to post something better if needed.
Post Edited (2007-01-17 19:47)
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Author: M09
Date: 2007-01-17 19:49
Quite right!
Plan A clearly didn't work. Its been a long day.....
Be with you shortly...
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-17 20:11
M09 wrote:
> Quite right!
> Plan A clearly didn't work. Its been a long day.....
Please make sure attachments aren't huge (they will be rejected by the limits I impose). 720 pixels as a max width is a good compromise.
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Author: M09
Date: 2007-01-17 20:19
Ok, here we go...
http://lotl.oc-tech.co.uk/whole.jpg
http://lotl.oc-tech.co.uk/lowerjoint.jpg
couldn't remember my password for the ftp.
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Author: M09
Date: 2007-01-17 20:39
:)
Thanks. I clearly don't get out enough, I found your reply far too exciting!
Is this a good thing?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-01-17 20:48
Malernes are good, solid student-level basses. Very comfortable mechanism, excellent sound and intonation in the lower (chalumeau and throat) registers. The downsides: keywork metal is soft and very easily bent; response and intonation in the upper (clarion and altissimo) registers are generally pretty lousy.
Playing-wise, roughly comparable with most Leblanc products (Vito, Normandy, Noblet, Leblanc-Paris model 400), though not as sturdily made.
Just my opinions (from having owned/overhauled at least ten of these things, under various brand names as well as the manufacturer's). In fact, I have one now which I've extensively modified, still doesn't play that great up top!
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Author: M09
Date: 2007-01-17 21:11
Many thanks for that. I don't know much about makers having always been very focused on the actual playing side of things and having played instruments that came with all the info at the time.
You are certainly right on the keywork. When it first came my way several were quite bent. I also agree that the lower register is definitely its strong point. I am pleased it is not something thought of as totally dreadful, fortunately seeing as it has only cost me a grand total of £120 including all the fixing up, case etc it never had to be that good to make it worth while.
Considering the time money and effort I put into finding the right Bb/A pair I had worried I would find something of non-professional quality disappointing to play but so far this is not the case. At the moment I am only playing it for fun really but I can see myself getting quite into it, so I may well be asking for advice on something better in a couple of years.
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2007-01-18 18:23
Out of curiosity and a desire to learn something, what do you see in the pictures that tells you it's absolutely, definitely a Malerne?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-01-18 18:39
Attachment: Malerne-Evette+bass+clarinet+in+case+112906[1].jpg (71k)
Attachment: Assembled+-+left+side[1].jpg (31k)
Attachment: Assembled+-+right+side[1].jpg (36k)
Let's see:
The design of the upper and lower stack key touchpieces.
The shape of the r.h. trill keys (especially the enlarged, rectangular lowest one)
The register mechanism
The shape and size of the upper trim ring
The arm over the C#/G# key cup coming up from the lower stack.
I'm sure there are more -- believe me, I can spot a Malerne alto or bass clarinet from a kilometer away at this point!
Attached are a few photos of my own Malerne (branded "Evette") bass clarinet -- mine is the one-piece-body hard rubber model; as with Kohlert alto and bass clarinets of that era, they came in hard rubber as well as two-piece-body wood models. Not to bait Vytas or anything, but as far as I've been able to tell there is no detectable difference in sound between the wood and hard-rubber models in these two brands.
Post Edited (2007-01-18 18:41)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-18 23:21
Aah, so the plastic Evette bass I used to use at college (before I got my Selmer) was a Malerne.
Yep, the upper register was pretty dire from what I remember, and the floor spike never stayed put. The upper trill key used to open so far it sometimes wouldn't return - it got stuck on top of the guide!
But for £120 you've done very well there.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-01-19 14:35
Chris, you can't blame Malerne for your upper trill key -- you were obviously missing the cork on the bottom of the key! This of course can happen to any clarinet.
However, the 'dire' upper register is indeed a Malerne bass clarinet "feature". In a few instances I've been able to make it tolerable by opening up the existing register vent or replacing it with a longer one, and in one case I even added a second manually-operated register vent (using a neck from another brand) -- that actually worked pretty well but of course required the player to learn to shift register keys when going above clarion Eb.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-19 15:58
It belonged to the college so I didn't want to do any work on it (even though it did need some keys bent to make it work), so I just had to be sure I didn't open it too much - which was difficult when trilling.
There was a great deal of springiness in these side keys due to their length.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: M09
Date: 2007-01-19 17:03
My register key has two parts to it, with one part being quite different in style. I wonder if this could be part of a modification? So far the upper registers, while not as good, do not seem as different to the lower ones as you describe.
Thanks ever so much by the way, for sharing your knoledge and experience. I am finding the responses really interesting (along with many of the other threads).
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-01-19 17:10
Some of the older Malerne-made bass clarinets were true double-register-vent designs. If you have a second (small) vent on the neck which opens above clarion Eb via a linkage from the bottom joint, then you have one of those more desirable instruments, and yours should play better up high. I confess to not having looked at your photos very carefully for such a feature.
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