 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-01-15 15:24
This thread is mostly for high school/college students with a limited budget who want to improve some aspect of their equipment/setup. Just for the record, I have been a semi-pro player and teacher for over 30 years, and have played with some world class orchestras as a sub (mostly when I was in my 20's).
In the last 2-3 years I have bought a new mouthpiece, barrel, bell, ligature, and had my horn set-up by one of the top repairmen in the country. Each one of these items has brought a new level of comfort/sound/joy to my playing. But if I have to pick ONE thing that has made the most difference, and if there is one thing I would PLEAD with you to get it would be:
The ATG system from Tom Ridenour along with the Rico Reed Vitalizer. These two items together will run between $80-90, and they have profoundly changed my clarinet life in the following way: I ALWAYS play on killer reeds. Always. Do you know the feeling you have/had when you're playing on one of the top 5 reeds you've ever played on in your life? You know, the ones you cry about when they die? I feel that way every single day. It is not an exageration to say that I almost have too many good reeds at any given time. Right now, I have 14 reeds that are completely ready to play, and I would play any one of them for an important concert, solo, or audition. For me, that's unheard of - I remember sweating over whether or not I would have a good (or great) reed for the next audition or concert, but those days are gone forever!
The beauty of the ATG system ($69.95 from Ridenour's website) is that it takes almost no time or talent to get 8 killer reeds out of an average box (I use Rico Grand Concert Thick Blank and Gonzales FOF - both strength 4). The beauty of the Rico reed vitalizer is that it keeps your reads ready to play, and it keeps them that way for a LONG time - , and the darn thing is only $10. My reeds now play better and last longer than at anytime in my life. I normally rotate between 8 or so reeds, and can easily get 2-3 months out of them playing an hour or 2 every day. For me, that's unheard of.
Here is an important piece of advice for all of you (even if you don't have or intend to get the ATG/Rico combo): You need to play on GREAT reeds all the time. In rehearsal, at your lesson, in your practice sessions. Get out of the habit of thinking that "this reed isn't very good, but it's okay for practice." No, it's not. Keep your standards higher. If you're not playing on great reeds all the time, you will be falling behind students who do. How can your teacher coach you on the subleties of playing a passage if you're playing on a reed that isn't capable?
Do yourself a favor and spend the $80. You won't be sorry.
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Author: CJB
Date: 2007-01-15 17:05
For me as an amateur adult player I think the best return on that level of investment would come taking a lesson from a truely inspiring teacher.
I don't have too bad a case of Gear Acquisition Syndrome, I have replaced the mouthpieces and ligatures on all of my instruments and have only ever purchased 1 additional barrel for my Bb as it is a struggle to keep it down to A=440 in hot humid weather.
Spending an hour with a great teacher would help me to get the best out of the gear I already own and help me improve the weakest link in my set-up......the player.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2007-01-15 17:11
for most of my students the best return on $80 would be a trip to the repair shop and have some minor maintenance issues addressed - missing/torn key corks, torn pads, bent keys straightened, etc.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Brandon
Date: 2007-01-15 18:17
The best use of $80 bucks or so for me was to study with a teacher at a major midwest conservatory. The first time I had a lesson with him I spent the afternoon at his home with a friend of mine, a current student of his at the conservatory. The eighty dollars included his book and the lesson, and most of his major points in the book were explained that afternoon. Most beneficial!
I really do not believe that one single piece of equipement(at least for $80) is going to change much. Granted, a good Vandoren mpc is certainly better than some mpc's I see kids with. I have never tried the ATG system, but with most quality stuff costing serious $$$ these days, $80 doesn't buy what it used too!
The moral of the story? I believe that a good lesson with an outstanding teacher far outweighs any GAS that one might have.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-01-15 18:33
If I just spontanously spent $80 right now there is no doubt I would spend it on CDs. Since most CDs I buy are from many different countries overseas it would probably mean 3 or 4 CDs. In the next [any number] times I spend $80 on anything music related, it would still most likely be CDs every time, definitely before anything like the ATG (which basically means I would never buy an ATG).
Post Edited (2007-01-16 04:20)
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-01-15 22:25
<shaking head in disbelief>
Of course studying with a great teacher is of utmost importance, and I would never suggest that one spend $80 on the ATG/Rico system INSTEAD of studying with a teacher. HOWEVER, if you actually READ my statement, it says (quoting now) "This thread is mostly for high school/college students with a limited budget who want to improve some aspect of their EQUIPMENT/SETUP."
I do not consider a private teacher or c.d.'s either equipment or set-up. Of course having a library of great recordings and studying with a great teacher is an absolute must. And with all due respect to Paul, my statement was for serious clarinet players - current or future music majors. Missing corks, torn pads and bent keys don't fall under the category of "where should I spend my discretionary $80". Those are items that would be attended to immediately. I did not intend my statement for the type of clarient player that would play an entire semester with a bent key. And Brandon, who says "I really do not believe that one single piece of equipement(at least for $80) is going to change much". I absolutely disagree, and my first post states why. $80 for learning a system where you will have terrific reeds all the time? That changes A LOT. Maybe where you guys are from, all of your students show up to lessons and rehearsal with absolutely great reeds every time, but that is the rare exception here. And you will never be able to implement all these great ideas you're getting from your teachers with crummy reeds. Never. Oh, and around here, a lesson with a top pro is closer to $200 than $80. Sheesh - lighten up, I was trying to help out!
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-15 23:12
Attachment: NailBuffer.jpg (34k)
I'd rather have Rico or Vandoren etc buy an ATG system. And use it. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
My finishing system costs only 2$. (see pic). If I have to finish my reeds at all. (I won't show you my reed trimmer...)
But if the system makes you happy - congratulations, in that case that's 80$ well spent.
--
Ben
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2007-01-16 03:29
Thanks for the post, Mags. It's making me re-think my laziness and use of Legeres.
I'm semi-pro myself, and have been teaching for nigh on 13 years (8 of them consecutively!). I call myself semi-pro because I do not play in an orchestra, and because I have to hold down a 20-hr-a-week retail job to pay for health care.
I'm tempted to try try again with this info. One question though, due to my ignorance of these pieces of equipment: How much time does it take to get the 8 great reeds out of a box?
Katrina
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-01-16 04:34
I'll explain why I think CDs is related. IMO listening to as many different types of music and as many differnet musicians as possible develops your most important piece of equipment - your brain.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2007-01-16 05:24
Katrina, I'd say, in most cases, 5 minutes per reed ... or less.
Of course, you can put together your own low-budget reed adjustment system (RAS to avoid any trademark issues) for far less than the ATG system. All you really need is:
1 piece of heavy (perhaps 1/4" thick) glass about 4"x8"
1 small sanding block (can be made from a small block of wood)
sheets of a couple different grades of very fine sandpaper (wet/dry is best)
Ah, but you say that the most important part of the ATG system is the instructional materials on how to test reeds and make adjustments? True but, the last time I looked, Tom Ridenour had the basic instructions for his approach to reed adjustment on his website -- for free.
(For the record, I purchased an ATG system awhile back. I still marvel at its simplicity and its ability to turn unbalanced reeds into players. I don't begrudge Tom Ridenour a cent of what I paid. My only complaint is the cheap plastic "hinges" on the case the glass is in. Mine arrived broken but it wasn't worth the trouble to send it back.)
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2007-01-16 15:15)
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-01-16 11:36
clarnibass wrote :"I'll explain why I think CDs is related. IMO listening to as many different types of music and as many differnet musicians as possible develops your most important piece of equipment - your brain."
Yes, and of course when I was talking about spending $80 to improve one's equipment/setup I was referring to your brain. It's so obvious. Give it up, clarnibass, you misinterpreted my first post, admit it. I even specifically listed mouthpieces, ligatures, barrels and bells when I was talking about the best place to spend one's money on equpment. I stand by what I said. A student who is considering the "latest, greatest" ligature would be wiser to spend the money on the ATG system. Period. Or not - let your students spend several hundred dollars on a new barrel and ligature, play on 2-3 reeds out of every box, squeak and squawk because the reeds are not balanced, always be stressing about having a good reed for the audition - makes perfect sense-money well spent. By the way, have you ever tried to work on legato fingering, or smooth register jumps with a bad reed? Impossible. Your students want to sound more like the pros? Some of them play on Vandoren mouthpieces, some on Crystal, and so on. Some play on string ligatures, some play Bonades, etc. What do they have in common? They all play on great reeds all the time. Or do you think Marcellus recorded Mozart on an "OK" reed?
Katrina, I agree it takes about 5 minutes or less. For me it's a process - I adjust the reeds a bit right out of the box, a bit more the next day, etc. In the normal reed break-in time (a week or so depending on the reed) they're done. I would spend the extra money to get the real ATG system - the book and DVD are the real value, not the tools (althought the sanding tool works great).
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-01-17 17:54
I like the ATG system too. Also liked my Vandoren reed stick, but it was stolen or lost. Will have to try Reedvitalizer....keep hearing good things about that from lots of folks. And so cheap!
Lori
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