 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: FDF
Date: 2007-01-04 23:00
How do you play a slur with dots over each note? For instance, three notes tied together by a slur, but each note is articulated by a dot over the note. I use a throat stop, rather than a soft tongue, but I’m not sure that is right. How do you articulate such a passage?
Thanks for your response.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-04 23:46
Hehe, funny you should ask that...my teacher was at a loss too when I stumbled over such a passage.
From the style of the piece we agreed that it must be "mezzo staccato" (sorta "thtagado"), with very light tongue or tongue-against-roof.
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Ben
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Author: FDF
Date: 2007-01-04 23:49
Thanks, tictactus, truly appreciate your reply.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-05 00:04
I did some googling against "mezzo staccato" and it looks like this: a traditional staccato consists of 1/2 note and 1/2 (implicit) rest (or thereabouts) while a mezzo staccato is 3/4 note and 1/4 rest. As I see it, mezzo staccato is like no articulation notation (neither slur nor dots) at all, but with a softer tongue.
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Ben
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Author: FDF
Date: 2007-01-05 00:40
Thanks, also found a similar reference to spiccato for violin.. . a light bouncing of the bow. Oddly, enough the mezzo staccato spiccato idea is how I interpreted the symbol, but wasn't sure of the technique.
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2007-01-05 00:58
The actual technique is not normally done any differently ie tip of tongue on top of the reed. This is generally regarded as the "standard" technique.
Having said that some players have had sucess with other methods.
With mezzo staccato the length is longer than standard staccato and with a more legato feel. A great deal depends on the musical context and personal taste. The way you would articulate the third of Stravinsky's Three Pieces would be different to would approach the articulation in the Brahms Sonatas.
Chris
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-01-05 01:09
um... those marks are not performed that way for string players- unless maybe you are thinking of something very fast.
for them (generally), the the slur with dots is playing all the notes under the slur in the same bow direction (like a slur) but putting a small stop in the bow between notes. You have the hear it on a string to know what it feels like. We have no physical way of imitating this on winds- nor on piano- but the music calls for it.
and yes, the context is important as to how we read all musical symbols as their meanings were different for different periods.
-s
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-01-05 13:45
It is important to realize that a slur with articulations underneath IS NOT a slur. It is a phrase line.
All of the notes under the phrase line have been grouped by the composer as being of the same idea and/or direction.
I do agree that they should be played with some detachment (although sometimes I play them legato). You should not change your articulation method to effect this sublte detail, however.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-01-05 15:14
The symbology means "legato tonguing". Use just enough interruption of the notes under the slur to separate them. Imagine what you would to to mark the start of a series of notes of the same pitch with a slur mark over them.
Certainly shortening the note values significantly does not convey the composer's meaning.
See Langenus Book III
Bob Phillips
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Author: D
Date: 2007-01-05 16:01
There is a professional musician who sometimes comes and tortures a recorder group I play in. She once asked us what we thought a slur was. We all replied, "no tongue."
She said, "so how do you slur on a piano then?"
Silence.
made my head hurt that did
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-01-06 04:15
Answer: you can't slur on a piano.
That's one of the reason bands need winds and strings.
Bob Phillips
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Author: jmcgann
Date: 2007-01-06 11:57
Quote:
You can't slur on strings either.
Time to rewrite history!
BTW plectrum instruments do it as well via "hammer-ons" (ascending) and "pull-offs" (descending), indicated by the same curved line used for winds and strings.
www.johnmcgann.com
Post Edited (2007-01-06 12:00)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-01-06 12:42
in English, 'slur' is really not a very appropriate name, I think. I remember a masterclass of a K. Leister where he always called it a 'bow'. 'There is a mistake in the score. This note is also under the bow.' ...
It really gives you a different idea of what it is just by changing the name.
As I understand, originally, it was a graphic representation of [insert fanfare audio clip here] a bow.
-S
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2007-01-06 14:20
I think Tobin makes a very good point: slurs, phrase marks and ties all have the same notation but subtly different meaning. It's not always obvious on first inspection which is which. In particular, the symbol can be used to carry accidentals over bar lines - it's really important to know when this is happening!
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Author: FDF
Date: 2007-01-06 16:25
Klose says, a slur should, “bind the notes.” He also says, “When the pointed notes are surmounted with a bind or tie, the stroke of the tongue must be softer, and not quite so short as in the simple point.” (88-89)
In reference to tonguing, Jack Brymer writes, “Notice how Brahms does not leave the notes unadorned, but adds both dots and overall slurs to them. This double marking indicates the sort of note the French describe as louré -- that is to say ‘weighted’ . . .” He says the tongue must be relaxed and lazy in action, and calls the technique a “’snowball’ staccato” Each note has a “soft start and finish, but a full sound for the rest of its duration.” (Clarinet, 168-169)
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2007-01-06 17:46
In earlier music one usually performs repeated notes with dots and slur similar to "bow vibrato". On wind instruments that mean that you would only use the breath (diaphragm) to articulate. If the music moves you would, as some have said already, use only the lightest touch with the smallest amount of tissue of the tongue, like an articulated legato.
Alphie
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