 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BeckD
Date: 2007-01-05 12:40
Hello everyone.
I am hoping that someone might be able to give me some advice on how I can help my son with his practise.
He is nine, and has been learning Clarinet for about a year. He has had lessons at school, but after the Christmas Holidays, we returned to find that his teacher has sadly suffered a minor heart attack and will not be able to return to work for about five to six weeks.
My son is keen to continue practise at home as normal and has decided, rather touchingly, that he wants to improve enough during his teacher's absence to be able to play him something that will make him happy when he returns. My son struggles with the instrument as he is still quite small, and yet his teacher has so much faith in his ability to learn this instrument that I want to help my son to make him smile when he is well again.
Unfortunately, neither myself, nor my husband, are particularly musical (apart from enjoying listening to it) and do not know what sort of things we can give him to work on.
Can anyone give me some advice as to what would be a good way for him to not only maintain the level he is at, but also maybe give him some improvement that would bring the smile to his teachers face that my son wants to do. I have purchased some of those practise books with CD's for him to work to and am starting to try to learn some music theory so I can help him but have no idea what else I can do.
Any advice would be very much appreciated.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-05 12:55
Are there any other teachers in the area that could help out in the meantime?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2007-01-05 13:33
If your son has been working out of a standard beginners method book, have him point out to you what lessons have been covered, and over what time period. Have him continue to move forward at about the same pace.
Most of the beginning method books are laid out so that the lessons are sequential.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-01-05 13:44
You say your son is quite small and struggles with the instrument. I take it that you mean physically he struggles due to his size. Have you considered getting a small Eb clarinet for him to begin on? I would recommend a plastic model such as a good quality (meaning in good condition) Leblanc Vito or something of that nature and help from his teacher as to the type of mouthpiece to use. The fingering is the same as the Bb (standard clarinet) and would help him develop good finger and sight reading skills.
This may sound drastic to you, but a lot of teachers of young children recommend this avenue. The Eb can always be sold or traded up when he grows enough to handle the Bb comfortably. Or, he may want to keep it for future use because if he becomes proficient on the instrument he could use it in advanced studies as well.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-01-05 13:51
While working in the books can help some, it might also be useful, if you can swing the time and the money, to see if there is a private instructor available in your area, who is good with beginners on the clarinet. Many music stores will offfer private teachers, or will have lists of individuals in the area who are capable of offering iinstruction.
Whle you can accomplish some on your own, as you have said yourself, neither you nor your husband have the nusical training to help out much, so you should look for a teacher. If nothing else, check with the band directors at the local high schools. They usually have some advanced clarinet players who might be willing to work with younger sudents, and the rates for instruction from one ofthese kids can be lower than what you would pay for a professional teacher. Plus, the students can sometimes make a better connection with the beginners. My daughter does precisely this, and she works with a few beginning students.
Jeff
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-01-05 15:00
How did you find the original teacher? Ask the person who made that recommendation for advice on a substitute.
Presumably there is a music teacher at your son's school. Perhaps he/she will be willing to take over the lessons temporarily, or to recommend someone else to do it. The substitute doesn't have to play clarinet, but should play a wind instrument if possible.
Your son is already started on Bb clarinet. I wouldn't switch to Eb at this point unless he really can't handle the Bb. The Eb squeals and is hard to control. Since he's enthusiastic and doing OK, I think there's no need to change.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-01-05 15:10
My recommendations:
I've had good results using Eb clarinets for small folks.
If your son is struggling with his larger Bb instrument, it might be too big and heavy for him and/or it might be in need of adjustment, or a mouthpiece/reed combination change. If you get him an Effer, have someone check it for playability, and to get your son set up with a good mouthpiece/reed combination.
I'd consider finding a willing teacher to pick up your son's training for the next couple of months. Ask that teacher to help with your son's instrument as well as to coach his playing.
Good luck to you all.
Bob Phillips
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Author: D
Date: 2007-01-05 15:56
Does the current teacher teach other students at the same school? If there are any older ones (especially if there are any doing GCSC, school leaving type exams) they might be interested in getting together with some of the younger kids once or twice just to help out with any questions.
I think one of the best things is to help him keep interested, which you are already doing lots to help with. As you have clearly grasped one of the key points is variety and stimulation. Playing along with CDs is a good one. Learning a couple of the easier scales may sound a little dull to a nine year old, but it is something that doesn't require much musical knowledge. If he hasn't already got it then look for a copy of the ABRSM clarinet scales book (it is blue if that helps). You can probably find this in the local lending library or a charity shop, but it actually isn't expensive to buy. There are other scale books around which are equally good, but as I happen to have the ABRSM one I know for a fact that there are all the fingerings in the front, which will help you help him. If he can't already do them I would recommend learning F major one octave (because it is the easiest and gives a sense of accomplishment) C and D majors (one octave) because they are harder, get over the break and will be in most pieces of music, G major one octave (in all the other pieces of music) and A minor one octave (because then he will be able to play all the grade one scales plus a spare, and that would be great for his ego). F major for example, starts with all the fingers down, then they are all lifted one after the other starting from the bottom. When you run out of fingers you put them all down again. He'll pick it up quickly. And if you go through some music with him and look for scales then you will probably both be surprised how many there are, and it suddenly makes them seem worth learning.
Sorry that turned into a rather long rant.
other ideas which he might find entertaining for a few minutes:
playing by ear.
making up a song.
writing it down. - get a manuscript book or find a printable version on the internet. it is great for his understanding of notation.
borrow some older children, doesn't matter if they play clarinet or not really, as long as they play something, and are willing to spend ten minutes helping him out with things he is stuck on, like how a rhythm goes or how a tune goes.
oh and, if you are not already in the habit of keeping him well supplied with reeds now would be a good time to start. I can't tell you how many kids I know who play the same reed for months and wonder why they sound rubbish. they seem to be of the mindset that only teachers can supply reeds and only one at a time - they're not rationed!
have fun!
your son is very lucky to have parents interested in helping him. that in itself is probably enough.
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-01-05 17:05
I, too, would recommend trying the E-flat clarinet, or perhaps a C clarinet, since your son is still small. I was teaching a 9-year-old Korean girl recently who has since moved back to Korea with her brand new B-flat clarinet. Her hands were quite small, and she had trouble getting over the break. If I had it to do over again, I would have suggested getting a C clarinet or E-flat to accommodate her small hands. It probably would have helped me when I started at age 8, too. In fact, I know a man who is principal E-flat clarinetist with the US Naval Academy Band and he started at age 6 on the E-flat clarinet! So you see, there are advantages. Your son will progress more quickly if the instrument fits his hands.
Lori
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-01-05 17:50
I'm not sure this is related to what you asked, but regarding those who suggested Eb clarinet - I started on Eb clarinet at age 7 and it was very good. I stayed on the Eb for about two years (around age 9 or 10 I changed to Bb).
Good luck.
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Author: KellyA
Date: 2007-01-05 18:12
I would talk to his teacher, if possible, in regards to having him switch to an Eb clarinet. Also, if he is playing in his school band, Eb clarinet parts may not be included into the score of beginning band arrangements. And if there are Eb clarinet parts, they are ussually only segments of what the 1st Bb clarinet plays. I would try to stick with the Bb if he can, otherwise if he just can't reach the keys or cover tone-holes, you may need to consider an Eb. If the clarinet is too heavy for him to play for long periods, you can get a neck strap. Also, you may want to have the instrument itself assesed for problems to make sure the pads are sealing well, etc. by a tech at a repair shop. There are some begining books with CD from Music Minus One that would be a blast for him to play. (Do a google search). Good luck and I wish you guys the best!
Buffet Tosca Greenline, Chadash barrel, Fobes CF+ mouthpiece, Eddie Daniels Ligature, Gonzalez F.O.F. 3.75 reeds.
Post Edited (2007-01-05 18:13)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-01-05 18:43
My thoughts on the Eb are for the size of his hands, etc. At age 9 he's learning to read music and make sounds on the instrument along with fingering and tonguing technique. Playing the Eb in a band setting is a total different thing to teaching an individual student to read and play at home or in private lessons. I'm assuming he's not in a band situation or you would have mentioned it. Most bands don't start kids until they're in 6th or 7th grade and by then he'll be big enough for a Bb.
I agree that sometimes an Eb can be shrill and hard to control on intonation, etc., but for small players an Eb or C clarinet can be the perfect solution. My 7 year old granddaughter can handle an Eb, but not a Bb due to the size of her hands and the lighter weight of the instrument.
This is suggested for one-on-one training in clarinet basics--not for group playing (unless you've got a group of kids on Eb or C). It works really well and it makes the transition to Bb easier when they're a couple of years older.
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Author: D
Date: 2007-01-05 18:47
From the ISP I assume you are in the UK, in which case the band/orchestra situation it going to be very unique to each school/local authority.
If your local music service is any good or if you have a good local community workshop that would be a good place to go to get advice and to find him a chance to play with other children. The most useful community music workshops are those with a massive age mix, right up to retirement. I think it is great for kids to see adults, including grandparents, learning right along side them. You could have a go too!.....................
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-01-05 19:06
Brenda Siewert wrote:
> Most bands don't start kids until they're in 6th or 7th grade
> and by then he'll be big enough for a Bb.
Brenda, perhaps it is different in your area, but I've taught elementary instrumental music in 3 different school districts on Long Island (NY) and in all cases we put the beginners (4th graders) into the elementary band at the half year (20 week) point.
The sooner that the student experiences the band setting, we noticed that practicing and motivation dramatically increased as well as their facility in adapting to group playing ...GBK
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-01-05 19:16
Thanks GBK, it is different here in Texas. They have to be in 6th grade. I think you have a good idea there in Long Island. I agree that they do better once the band experience begins.
Another way to encourage young beginners is to take them to band concerts. My granddaughters are attending my concerts and learning to ask questions and look forward to the day they can play. School concerts with friends are another great idea so they can see and hear kids close to their ages. We also have a Young Audiences program here in town where the Philharmonic orchestra and others open to the school-aged kids and also to younger children for special programs designed at teaching them about insruments, etc. This is something the kids seem to love.
These are just ideas to help bring your son along in addition to the lessons.
Post Edited (2007-01-05 19:21)
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Author: BeckD
Date: 2007-01-05 22:09
Thank you, thank you, thank you a million times thank you for all your responses.
I have read and digested them all and hopefully we should be able to manage to provide him with some sort of structure to fill in the gaps until his teacher returns. (I did look into other sources of instruction but the only place that is viable for us to go will not start doing their clarinet lessons for another couple of months, and by then we are hoping that his teacher will be well enough to return).
His teacher, by the way, is not the School Music teacher. He is in fact the School Caretaker who is a very accomplished clarinetist (I understand he used to play in a band in the Armed Forces). The School only employs a teacher to do Music lessons on a part-time basis twice a week but I have heard today that another teacher is willing to listen to the clarinetists play once a week and try to provide guidance. She is not a clarinet player but I believe that she is experienced in another woodwind instrument - which is certainly more than I am!
We have a neck strap, which he does use occasionally but I get the impression from watching him that it is at the moment the weight of the instrument that bothers him as he is often stopping what he is playing and "fidgeting" to try to gain a comfortable position. Without the neck strap the size of the instrument ends up "dragging" his neck down as it becomes too heavy which I can only imagine restricts his breathing. I shall have to pursuade him to get used to using the strap!
As for changing the clarinet, he was playing with a school instrument but has his own now due to his Grandparents purchasing one for him for a Birthday present. Unfortunately, it would mean a lot of financial sacrifice to get a different one for him - as we have three other children to think of as well.
D - Thank you for your long and detailed response. You have definately given me a lot of pointers to consider.
Thanks once again, and one thing I have learned from all this is that the Clarinet community are definately wonderful and very helpful people!
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Author: bookron ★2017
Date: 2007-01-06 02:26
I have an alternate take on the comment about your son being small and struggling with the instrument. I'm not disagreeing at all with the advice given here already, but just adding some comments from my own life experience.
I started playing the clarinet (B-flat) when I was 9, and I can guarantee that your son was no smaller than I was. Many times, well-meaning people were too anxious to make excuses for my size, rather than working on the techniques they would have suggested for other students.
I was fortunate to have a teacher who would have none of that. Because I was small, technique was even more important. After the first year or so, size was not an issue, and no one ever mentioned it again.
As an example of technique, I wonder if the weight issue of the clarinet might be due less to the instrument itself than to your son pushing down on the mouthpiece as he plays. It's a common problem.
I mean this only as a cautionary note. I think you would be doing your son a disservice if you ever let size serve as an excuse.
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Author: marvin
Date: 2007-01-06 16:50
Becky
I also support the Eb or C clarinet route. Although the additional cost might seem burdensome, helping your son play without unnecessary struggle seems extremely important to me. You may also want to explore the idea of the Lyons C clarinet. I believe that Julian Bliss started on one. http://www.firstclarinet.com/
As I scanned the responses, I didn't see a mention of computer programs such as Smart Music or play-along CDs. These might be a big help in getting through the time that your son's teacher is unable to meet with him.
Marvin Western
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Author: Sarah Elbaz
Date: 2007-01-07 15:13
Young students should be in a music school or a conservatory and not study with privet teachers. If the teacher is sick, the school will provide a substitude.
It is also very important that young students will get Solfege and Harmony lessons and play with a pianist from the begining.
Sarah
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-07 16:34
Sarah Elbaz wrote:
> Young students should be in a music school or a conservatory
> and not study with privet teachers.
I'm sorry, that is absolutely not practical in many parts of the world. In the US, as far as I know, specialized arts schools do not start until the 9th grade.
What exactly do you have against private teachers? Most do an absolutely fine job with their students.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-07 16:53
Mark Charette wrote:
> I'm sorry, that is absolutely not practical in many parts of the world.
Same here. Our schools provide nothing besides elementary music education in the first two years (age 7 and 8). After that you can join a youth music school (subsidized), but that is "hors concours", ie not in the normal curriculum. It's recommended that clarinet pupils must be 11 or older.
--
Ben
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-01-07 17:54
I am not sure here in Israel there are any music elementary schools, but Sarah seems to be from Haifa and I have no idea what schools they have there.
There are conservatories - when I started clarinet at age 7 I studied in a conservatory, but it wasn't a part of my school at all. It was in the afternoon, and once a week I had a theory/solfege group lesson. Other than that, it wasn't different than a private teacher, whenever my teacher was sick she canceled, and gave an extra lesson another time.
In Israel as far as I know music/dance/art schools start either at 7th grade (like the one I went to) or later. In my elementary school we had music lessons, but it was an hour a week of a lady with an accordion playing while all the kids sang silly archaic songs.
I'd be interested to know what elementary school Sarah was talking about that provide clarinet lessons, and at what age?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-07 18:01
clarnibass wrote:
> I am not sure here in Israel there are any music elementary
> schools, but Sarah seems to be from Haifa and I have no idea
> what schools they have there.
In the US there are precious few high schools where there is a concentration in the arts, and they tend to be very competitive in their admissions. I can come up with less than a dozen offhand.
"Conservatories" are generally the equivalent of colleges of fine arts. In the US there's no early predestination as to what your career will be, as there is in some other countries. Indeed, in the US many college students change their major midstream.
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Author: Sarah Elbaz
Date: 2007-01-07 18:14
Hello Mark and Nitai,
I am not from Haifa, I teach at the Israel Conservatory in Tel Aviv and at thew Tel Aviv University.
The elementary music system here starts at age 3 and ends at 18.
Nitai , You live near the Sadna in the German Colony don't you? Why don't you go to the conservatory and ask what they have there?
I have nothing against privet teaching, except that a privet teacher can't give enough to the young student. They MUST learn theory from the begining as well as chamber music and key board. There is no other way.
You can't start teaching MUSIC in college - it is too late.
When I lived in the US (Los Angeles) I had to go to the student house to teach because that's the way it is there, but I felt like one of the toys of the child.
When you go to the students house there is no distance between the teacher and the student.
Music schools has another big advantage: you don't talk with the student or the parents about money!
Sarah
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-07 18:22
Sarah Elbaz wrote:
> They MUST
> learn theory from the begining as well as chamber music and key
> board. There is no other way.
Interestingly enough, if you look at many working professionals around the world, you'll find MANY who started later and did not attend conservatory but studied on their own with private teachers. Of COURSE there's another way.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-01-07 19:02
"Conservatories are generally the equivalent of colleges of fine arts."
I noticed that conservatory in other countries (mostly in Europe) is like a music university/college. In Israel it means something else. Almost always a conservatory is like an institute for young people to start learn music, in the afternoon outside of their their school. Some conseravotries are sort of combined with a school (usually only from 7th grade) but it is too specific and each one is different. All music universities are called either a college, university, school, but never a conservatory.
"In the US there's no early predestination as to what your career will be, as there is in some other countries."
What countries?
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Author: Sarah Elbaz
Date: 2007-01-07 19:33
Nitai,
The music system in Israel is based on the French system.
I wonder if you have an idea how many schools of music there are in Israel? I mean schools that teach music!
The Conservatories in Israel are different from the "community schools" in other countries because they demande a lot from the student and the teachers. Ear training, exams, master classes and concerts.
Of course there are different levels but the good conservatories are very good.
Sarah
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Author: Sarah Elbaz
Date: 2007-01-07 19:37
Mark,
The question is what is the modle of musician you have in mind.
If you look at musicians such as Tabea Zimmermann - she started when she was 3! And what about Julian Bliss - do you think he could be that good at this age if he started in the 6th grade?
There are different examples , but the sooner the better.
Sarah
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-07 20:02
I wonder whether or not I should get started about pushy parents and child labour...
I don't honestly believe an institution (as opposed to an individual) can properly assess a child's inclination, talent and interest.
I know of some children in the neighbourhood who spend more "leisure" (non-school-related) time on an ice rink or behind an instrument than playing with their peers, and I am not all the certain that it is all for the best and benefit of the kid. But I digress...
--
Ben
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-07 20:33
Sarah Elbaz wrote:
>vAnd what about Julian Bliss - do you think he
> could be that good at this age if he started in the 6th grade?
A product of private teachers ...
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-07 20:37
Sarah Elbaz wrote:
> Mark,
> The question is what is the modle of musician you have in mind.
Let's see, in the US, which has some fine clarinetists:
Darn near every orchestral clarinetists I can think of started clarinet well past the age of 3 (probably started at age 10 or 11) and most did not get any real theory training until high school if they were lucky.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-01-08 05:57
"I wonder if you have an idea how many schools of music there are in Israel? I mean schools that teach music!"
I studied in the Rubin music highschool, and I'm familiar with two other music schools in my city. I only know a few outside my city (like Telma Yelin, Alon) but all of these are music highschools that start on 7th grade or later. Are you talking about elementary music schools? I don't know any of those.
"I wonder whether or not I should get started about pushy parents and child labour...
I don't honestly believe an institution (as opposed to an individual) can properly assess a child's inclination, talent and interest."
Eventhough I studied in a conservatory (institute), it was the clarinet teacher who made the decision to accpet me, based on speaking with me, and doing some rhythm tests. Just because you study in an institute doesn't mean nothing is decided by the teachers themsevles (like which pupils to accept for example).
I agree with Mark. In Israel also some of the best musicians started at a later age, and studied with a private teacher. Mark, I still would like to know what countries you referred to that have "early predestination as to what your career will be"?
Thanks.
Post Edited (2007-01-08 05:58)
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Author: Phil O'Connor
Date: 2007-01-08 07:13
Gotta chime in here, since many of my friends, and colleagues here in the U.S. teach- or have been taught by private teachers, both on HIGH, and LOW levels. Hopefully, a PRIVATE teacher helps with all facets of music, not JUST the clarinet. This would include ALL stages of musical development........ In my lessons with some of the worlds GREATEST teachers (not JUST clarinet, BTW....) we covered minute details dealing with theoretical structure VERY often. MOST SIGNIFIGANTLY-----As a teacher, in the private setting, I have never felt like a toy to the student. (yes-even in Los Angeles.....) On the contrary, I have been involved with students ranging from their first exploratory sounds (THE MOST IMPORTANT DAY OF A STUDENTS LIFE........) to helping colleagues prepare for world competitions or very visable popular orchestral auditions. In any level of development, it has been an honor, a commitment, a host of challenges, and very often, an inspiration. I don't take for granted the guidance I received in my late start dealing with clarinet studies. If I did not seek out proper guidance, I may not have enjoyed my career as a MUSICIAN, thus far. If I did not seek out proper guidance, I may not be able to fulfill my OBLIGATIONS as a TEACHER, with those that come to seek help, advice, or guidance. I did not start with solfege. I did not play e flat clarinet when I was 3. I started out playing clarinet in 5th grade band, so I could then play saxophone soon after. It just so happens that music shows no age requirement for enthusiasm, at least with anyone whom I have ever met. I DO make a fairly GENEROUS living as a performer of clarinet, in spite of my misguided youth!!!!!!!!!! I do take serious my responsibility in delivering wide analysis of music, not only in simple "clarinet" talk. Many, many of my closest clarinet playing friends, whom play in the worlds' best chamber groups, contemporary music ensembles, ballets, opera orchestras, orchestras, pit bands, rock bands, jazz groups, world music ensembles, and recording artists also share in common the phenomena of overcoming obstacles of learning, as has been supposedly described earlier in this post. Starting early, with classroom guidance can be a help- or a hinderance, depending on whom is divulging the information. Studying privately, early or late in a musician's development can be a help- or a hinderance, depending on whom is divulging the information. There is NO ONE PATH. THERE IS NO RIGHT, OR WRONG WAY. The integral part of musical development really falls into whether someone develops for a lifetime, or stunts their growth with ill- instruction, or lack of enthusiasm for self- study, and refinement of musical ability. Private instruction in early development may not be the only answer, but it does get the mind, fingers, and body moving in a direction of LEARNING MUSIC. The main ingredients for any of us to realize are making serious study fun, rewarding, and CONTAGIOUS, no matter the age, or setting. Respectfully yours- Phil----------------------- to answer the question as was originally asked, while the private teacher is unavailable, it is most important that the young student remains invested in their pursuance of getting better, and ENJOYING the process of DOING...................
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-08 11:17
clarnibass wrote:
> Mark, I still would like to know what countries you referred to
> that have "early predestination as to what your career will
> be"?
England, for one. Your 'A Levels' et al. are a determinant to your fields of study, and they come at a rather early age (16-17).
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Author: Sarah Elbaz
Date: 2007-01-08 18:33
Hello,
There are some point that I would like to make clear:
Mark:
I never said that any one should start playing the clarinet at age 3 . Tabea Zimarmann is a VILOA player. I do think that musical education should start
in very young age.
Nitai:
About music schools in Israel: since I do the Clarinet Days course in I have a mailing list of all the music schools in Israel. There are about 700 schools! Conservatories, Ulpanim, Megamot etc. (sorry for the Hebrew terms..)
Phil:
The very big advantage of a school is that the student can work with different teachers. If the student gets clarinet lessons from a good clarinetist, Harmony lessons from a good harmony teacher (a composer perhaps) and so on, his musical education will be much better!
If the student works only with one teacher (even a very good one)
he/she will have a very one sided picture of the musical world, and in the future will face big problems , such as making choices, beeing an indipendent preformer and will also have a very limited information about teaching.
Even if students are going later to college, I belive that it is too late to start serious musical education.
Sarah
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-01-08 19:21
Sarah Elbaz wrote:
> If the student works only with one teacher (even a very good
> one)
> he/she will have a very one sided picture of the musical world,
> and in the future will face big problems , such as making
> choices, beeing an indipendent preformer and will also have a
> very limited information about teaching.
Of course.m I don't know anyone who has had only one teacher by the time they get to college.
> Even if students are going later to college, I belive that it
> is too late to start serious musical education.
When is too late? I think this is where we have a very big disagreement. You've been saying that if someone doesn't start very early they will not be able to have a career. I say that there are just too many counterexamples for you to make the statement. But perhaps we really are in agreement if your 'starting age' is what I would consider reasonable.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-08 19:26
> Even if students are going later to college, I belive that it is too
> late to start serious musical education.
Okay, I did some (really really unscientific) research using Google - I searched for the term "started making music at the age of" and found 83 suitable hits. (these are in no way statistically relevant, but I was just curious). Here's the result:
# of samples: 83
max Age: 31
min Age: 1
Arith. Average: 12.42
Geom. Average: 11.2
Median: 13
Std Deviation: 4.57
Again - statistically irrelevant, but those who "made it" into Google with these search terms started at an average age of ~12.
I also googled for "started playing piano at the age of" and found a lot more hints with the average age significantly lower (the first page had a range of 4..9). Same for "violin" (less hits, but age in the same range). With "clarinet" I got a rough average of ~10 years while the "sax age" was even higher, roughly the same as "tuba". "Flute" had the broadest range (some 5 to 21) of first-played age.
I think there must be statistically more relevant data around ("# of records sold vs. entry age" or maybe "monthly income from performing vs entry age")
--
Ben
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2007-01-08 19:51
Every private teacher I ever had required my coming to his studio for lessons. There was definitely a difference between us and a definite respect for his expertise and authority. This was in conjunction with an ongoing school involvement, or with a working orchestra or band involvement. The two work quite well together.
I believe some kids in Russia would fall under the "predestined career" model that Mark is mentioning. However, I do not speak for him, he is quite capable of elaborating. I have friends from Moldova (Ukrain) who began in Russia as small children (violin player married to prima ballerina). Their daughter is likewise in a very prestigious ballet school and was one of the youngest (age 3) ever accepted into that school. They are molded toward a future in that career.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-01-08 20:45
<<I believe some kids in Russia would fall under the "predestined career" model >>
I had the privilege of knowing very closely a woman who fit this model -- my mother-in-law, who passed away just one year ago.
Although she was actually born prior to the Bolshevik revolution (1913), all her schooling was under the Soviet system. She was identified very early in the process as what we would call a "gifted" student, and consequently was afforded the opportunity to go as far as her gifts would carry her. She always wanted to be a doctor, and that is what she became.
But even though she was identified and "tracked" in a certain direction, she had to continually prove her worthiness to continue in the track. What was offered to her was the *opportunity* to compete. The state provided the schooling, but she still had to find some way to support herself while attending (since her family in no way could afford to send her). So, she first studied nursing, and worked as a nurse while she completed her medical school studies -- and graduated first in her class anyway.
The picture regarding state support may have changed in later years, and may have looked somewhat different for an individual whose career direction was a little higher profile -- as, say, a gifted performing artist or athlete. I have heard tales of the pressure for achievement brought to bear on some of these kids, and what happens to those who "wash out" of their programs.
The good thing that I see about this system is that early in the past century, a little girl from a poor rural family was, in fact, encouraged to become an M.D. -- a path that would be relatively rare for her demographic even in the U.S. today.
But how did we get from discussing a mother's desire to help her son continue the clarinet during his teacher's brief absence, to a discussion of international pedagogy?
Susan
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2007-01-09 16:13
There is a company that makes a small C clarinet called the Lyons C clarinet, especially for beginningyounger students.
www.firstclarinet.com
Leonard
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Author: KellyA
Date: 2007-01-09 18:55
What brand/model of clarinet is he playing now? The lightest is the Buffet B12 which can be picked up on "that auction site" for under 100 bucks.
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The Clarinet Pages
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