 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Amadeus70
Date: 2007-01-05 08:51
Hi to all. Since I like a lot the Clarinet instrument and I would like to play it, I have seen this nice forum. I have some little question about this great instrument and I hope you will help me to understand it more...
I am not very young, since I am 36, but I like a lot the sounds and the musics generated from Clarinet so few months ago I decided to buy a Clarinet for myself. I was to buy an used wooden instrument like Buffet Evette Master model or a Leblanc Noblet (both on eBay) but then I decided for a new one made of plastic (Selmer 1400B) that is enough powerful for my few ability...
The first things I have noted are: the Clarinet is not so easy to play, the thumb of the right hand is strained soon as well as both the lips and the mouth.
Another thing: since I love Mozart's music I would like to know if it is possible to play its famous concert with a Sib Clarinet or if it is necessary to have an A Clarinet. Thank you and excuse me if my questions are strange...
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-05 09:18
Welcome!
(and while you're not very young, you're not very old either, and besides, it's never too late).
First of all, if you haven't done so, find a teacher. I think this is most important when you start an instrument, before you learn things the "wrong" way. If you have a music school in your environment, you might find a student teacher there, else there maybe is a community orchestra etc... But do get a tutor who is familiar with the instrument. It is money well spent.
The right thumb will need to build up some strength. Sometimes, the thumb rest is set awkwardly low, resulting in more-than-necessary fatigue. A teacher or your friendly technician could determine whether or not you had better relocating the thumbrest (or preferrably replace it with an adjustable one)
Tired lips are not uncommon - when I started a bit more than a year ago, my lips (or rather the muscles) hurt after five or ten minutes and I started wobbling my mouth. This should go away with time - it's a matter of building up muscles and getting used to it.
When playing unaccompanied, it doesn't really matter what key your instrument is in - the piece might sound a note or two hither or lower than intended, but who cares?
Soo...good luck on your musical journey, and never forget: It's supposed to be fun!
--
Ben
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Author: Amadeus70
Date: 2007-01-05 09:32
Thanks for your fast reply, tictactux... I have appreciated a lot your advise... tomorrow I will go to a young but enough good Clarinettist. I have noted the difficults to a good impostation... so a teacher is very important. I hope to play Mozart famous Clarinet Concerto a day (the dreams are here for everyone, aren't they?) so I have seen its orchestral score and there is "Clarinet in A" first of the Clarinet part so my curiosity about the kind of Clarinet necessary to play this great composition.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-05 10:34
I think you can get away with a full Boehm (with the low Eb extension) clarinet instead of an A clarinet, but this probably "costs" you a lot of flats and awkward fingerings in return.
Personally, I think by the time you're able to master that Concerto, you have put enough money aside to afford an A clarinet.
I don't mean to discourage you, but it probably takes a year or two or three...but don't give up that dream.
--
Ben
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Author: Amadeus70
Date: 2007-01-05 10:51
OK. I play the piano enough well, but the Clarinet is really a new world for me...
My first love is the piano (infinite piano works available, versatility with other instruments, great extension, powerful sound) but i do not like some side like the fact that you can not play your instrument (only Horowitz and some other Big had his pianos in concerts) in exibitions... then the sound of the piano is beauty but however is a percussive sound while the Clarinet sound is like a singer...
For the years necessary to learn how to play the Clarinet without scare the full family and the cat are not a problem for me since I have studied piano for many years... However was pity that I have done this step (to learn Clarinet) only now.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-01-05 11:06
Amadeus 70,
Welcome to the clarinet community. Don't worry about the cat, since you have a mental picture of a beautiful clarinet sound, it should not take long at all to produce similar sounds yourself (though I second Ben's suggestion for a teacher).
The principal clarinetist of La Scala is one of the greatest clarinetists I have heard. So you have the advantage of a home town boy to reinforce your concept of a good tone.
Good luck.
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: kilo
Date: 2007-01-05 12:48
Regarding the Mozart Concerto, as you become proficient on the clarinet just try playing the part on your Bb. As long as you're not playing with anyone it really won't matter. You'll be able to learn the fingerings, you'll be able to play the melody. (I know there are some people with perfect pitch who would really object to playing the Mozart off key, but as far as making a musical sound goes and learning your instrument I think it would be fun.) As tictactux points out, when you're really skilled enough to play it in recital, you'll probably be able to buy a clarinet in A or borrow one from your instructor.
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2007-01-05 13:27
You can play mozart's clarinet concerto on a Bb clarinet. They even sell music that has the clarinet part for Bb clarinet and the piano part that goes with it.
The problems with this are you won't be able to play it with an orchestra, and you won't be in tune if you want to play along with recordings that were done on an A clarinet.
It usually takes years of playing clarinet before you are ready to play the concerto with an orchestra behind you.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-01-05 13:44
Welcome Amadeus70, Wolfie Mozart's Concerto. the more technically-difficult movements, are still beyond my poor skills, but I do enjoy playing alone [or with one or two others] some of M's Divertimenti, an Adagio [trio] etc, so as to become familiar with his simpler [but challenging] compositions. Some of these are readily available from "sheet-music" stores or online sellers as listed in our BBoard "commercials". Best Wishes
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Amadeus70
Date: 2007-01-05 13:47
OK. Now it is more clear to me thankful to your interesting reply. Thank you.
So, a pro clarinettist would have more that a Sib Clarinet. Excuse me if this is obvious for you, but with this instrument there are many elements that a pianist can securely ignore...
It is true that when you learn the correct fingering on a Sib Clarinet then you have not to learn another kind of fingering on a A (or other tune) Clarinet?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-01-05 13:59
Hi Again, AM70, I forgot to mention that we have had some discussion of the "thumb problem" in the "thread" [below] "Sore right hand little finger" as to steps to improve technique And reduce "fatigue". Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-01-05 14:08
That is correct. The fingerings will be identical, only the pitch will be different. Clarinets commonly come in A,Bb, C and Eb in the soprano clarinet range, and all of these instruments are notated exactly the same way. For example, if you see a C in the middle of the staff, no matter which clarinet you play, the fingering will be the same. The piitch you will produce, however will be different relative to the same note played on the piano. For example, a C played on a Sib clarinet will produce a note equivalent to a SiB on your Piano. The same fingering on a clarinet in C will prooduce a note of the same pitch as the C on your piano. For the A clarinet, , the fingered C will sound like an A on your piano. The Bb and A clarinets are slightly lower in pitch than whe same notes on a piano (a major second and an minor third below the same note on the keyboard). The Eb soprano is a minor third ABOVE the same bote on the piano; thus, the C played of an Eb horn will sound like an Eb played on the piano, a minor third above the normal C.
I hope this is making sense.
As to the Mozart, as mentioned above, there a re piano reductions available for playing this piece, with piano, for either a Bb or an A clarint. The notation for the clarinet is the same, the transposition is made on the piano part to accommodate the clarinet and its relative pitch.
Good luck with your musical goals. I know you will enjoy playing the clarinet. I played it for years, beginning in 1968. I took off a few years, and recently returned to playing again. Have fun and learn how to make the music properly. That is important, so you will not have to "unlearn" bad habits later on. Enjoy!
As to the thumb, look at getting a neck strap for your instrument. You might also look at Tom Ridenour's Thumb Saddle, if the problem does not get better. You can find it at: http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/Thumb.htm
Jeff
Post Edited (2007-01-05 14:10)
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Author: Amadeus70
Date: 2007-01-05 16:26
Thank you for clear explanation about various tuned clarinet. Clarinet in C could be more easy for me since I have not to care about trasposition but clarinet in Sib are the standard, aren't they?
Thanks for the link, Don. I did understand that the thumb's problem does not affect only the beginner...
Hey Jeff the neck strap solution seems really useful... I have found this similar solution here:
http://www.dampi.it/Appoggi_per_pollice_BG_A23_largo-1300-L-L2.music
But I think to order one from the vendor you have reported in your message since it seems more useful. I must buy one of this accessory otherwise I will not can buy a Selmer Recital... ;-))
Serious... it is true that Selmer professional clarinets are more heavy than equivalent models made by other vendors like Buffet or Leblanc?
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-01-05 18:00
No, not really. The weight of the clarinet will vary somewhat depending on the density of the piece of wood used to make the particular instrument. Assuming you look at only clarinets made from African Blackwood (grenadilla), they will not weigh exactly the same, and much of that has to do with the wood, itself. My Buffet R13 from 1971 is denser than the average clarinet, and even compared to most comparable Buffets of the same era, and this is a function of the wood it was made from. I had a friend who had a Selmer 10G from about the same time, and there was not that mich of a difference in the wood; in fact, I noticed more of a difference due to the feel of the keywork than I did from apparent difference s in weight. Just as a personal matter, I didn't like the feel of her Selmer: it felt very much like the keywork on a Bundy. I liked the way my Buffet's keys were sculpteed much better. They seemed to fit my hands much better. Of course, that is a personal preference. I have never tried one of the new Signature or Recital models, so this may have changed.
Jeff
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Author: kenb
Date: 2007-01-05 18:43
Selmer Recital Bb = 801 gr. (28.25oz.)
Buffet Crampon R13 Bb = 723 gr. (25.5 oz.)
- from Lee Gibson's book 'Clarinet Acoustics'
The Selmer Recital is unusual in that it has a thicker body than any other soprano clarinet on the market, including the rest of the Selmer range.
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Author: D
Date: 2007-01-05 18:43
If you do find that you need a differently pitched clarinet at any point in the future, don't rule out the possibility of hiring or borrowing one. It might not be possible at very short notice, but a specialist woodwind supplier or perhaps occasionally even some large schools or universities may be able to rent you an instrument for a few weeks or months if you ask them far enough in advance and approach the subject knowing it will cost you some money. Alternatively buy a second hand instrument, play it while you need it and sell it on for as near to the same price as you can get. Although it would be nice to have every clarinet size ever made, you probably wont need them all.........
And my personal recommendation is buy yourself a copy of the sheet music of the Mozart. 99.9% of the worlds clarinet players are never going to play that piece very well, but that doesn't stop them having it on their shelf. I play mine when everyone has gone out!.................
Also it is a good example of one reason to practice your scales.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-01-05 21:52
Thanks for the specific weights, Ken! Now that youy mention it, I seem to recall references to the Selmer having thicker walls.
Jeff
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Author: kilo
Date: 2007-01-05 22:20
That aroused my curiosity. My Series 10 weighs 25.3 oz and my Greenline is just shy of 28. I'd need an impartial judge to appraise the tonal differences, if any, they sound pretty much alike to me.
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2007-01-05 23:34
Amadeus --
As mentioned above, the Mozart Clarinet Concerto K622 has been done in piano reductions where the (piano) accompaniment is transposed up a half step so that the solo part can be played on the Bb clarinet.
The old Bellison edition is still carried by Carl Fisher in New York. Copies often turn up on ebay. Make sure you get one with both the piano accompaniment and the separate solo part.
Better yet, check with the great Italian music publishing house of Ricordi in Milano. I'll bet they have an edition of K622 for piano and Bb clarinet.
Keep us posted on your progress.
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Author: Amadeus70
Date: 2007-01-06 10:47
I had my lesson today morning but my teacher asked me to move the lesson for this afternoon... however I have found the score for Clarinet in Sib and piano of the Mozart Concerto... :-)))
First to play it I think to learn a lot of scale and arpeggios... :-)))
Like piano concertos, I have seen that Mozart have added a lot of this ability also for the Clarinet :-)
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Author: Amadeus70
Date: 2007-01-06 17:00
I did just came to home... I've had my first lesson... frankly I'm enough disappointed... It seemed that he wanted that I was already capable to play something...
His first advise was to change my basic mouthpiece (that is sold with my Selmer).
Second advise: change the reed from 2 to 2 and 1/2.
Third: I must do a lot of long sound with correct respiration (diaframmatic).
Fourth: since I am a pianist I shoud "call" the note to play at real tune (A instead of Sib and so on...).
The only positive thing is that he has appreciated the sound of my Selmer and this was a surprise for me for 2 reasons: my Selmer 1400 B is made in plastic and he has a... "little" Buffet RC Prestige brown... ;-)))
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-01-06 17:55
Don't be discouraged. Your teacher is working on fundamental concepts for you right now. Things like proper breathing are ctritical to becoming good on the instrument. Also, if he says your reeds are too soft, that is easy enough to fix. To be quite honest, the mouthpieces that come with most beginner instruments are not very good. They will get a noise out of the instrument, but beyond that , they are pretty much worthless.
Keep a positive attitude and you will progress. Remember that it was not all that easy to get a geat performance when you first began piano. Even so, you had an instrument that would produce proper tone when you struck a key. With the clarinet (or any other wind instrument), you have to add breath support, good reeds, proper embouchure, posture and other things to the basic concept of proper fingerings. It takes time to develop and coordinate these aspects so that you can produce the sound you want to produce. Just keep working at it!
Jeff
Edited for typos
Post Edited (2007-01-06 18:17)
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Author: Amadeus70
Date: 2007-01-06 18:04
Yes, you are right... it's only my inpatience. Only... maybe he was in a bad day so he was not happy to do lesson... I did would to receive a bit more of encouragement if possible...
However, luckily there is this nice forum :-)
Thanks for your words, Jeff.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-01-06 19:30
Amadeus,
...be grateful for that reality check. On the positive side, there's room for improvement (in every aspect).
The "plastic selmer" episode shows that the teacher is not a brand or material snob, so you can be rather confident that the "new moutpiece new reed" advice was substantiated.
And besides - we grow with challenge. No challenge, no or little progress. (I don't know where I'd be today if my teacher didn't give me homework where I, at first glance, always think "that's too difficult. I'll never be able to learn this")
--
Ben
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Author: Amadeus70
Date: 2007-01-08 14:55
Ok, about Mozart Concerto I did speak about A and Sib (tracription) version and I did understand that the Sib version is not beauty like the original A.
Then, I have seen that with some clarinet with additional keys like Selmer series 9 is possible to play music for A clarinet. Is this true?
And then I would like to know how good are Selmer series 9 and their sound quality.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-01-08 21:01
A good Series 9 is a nice clarinet. Just like with any others, they will vary from instrument to instrument, also with what care they have received over the years.
The "extra key" you would need is a low Eb, which is usually found on "full Boehm" type clarinets.
Jeff
Post Edited (2007-01-08 21:24)
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Author: Amadeus70
Date: 2007-01-09 10:32
OK. Thanks for your interesting reply, Jeff.
Unluckily, Selmer series 9 and 10 are enough rare to find at affordable (and honest) price...
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