 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sherihand
Date: 2006-12-26 00:23
Greetings and Merry Christmas,
I am a first time poster so I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Sheri and I have recently picked the clarinet "back up" after 20 years. I have been practicing the instrument I had from junior high band, a Vito. Other than the tone quality I had no trouble at all breaking in to playing. I got a brand new Amati model 314 for Christmas this morning and I could not get a sound to come out after the clarion A. I am so discouraged. I thought a nice new instrument would help me play with more ease, not cause me to not play at all. Does anyone have any suggestions or tips?
Thanks so much,
Sheri
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-12-26 00:54
The reed may be too soft for you. Try moving the reed up, slightly higher on the mouthpiece.
You could also try putting a bit more mouthpiece into your mouth...GBK
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2006-12-26 00:55
are you using the mouthpiece, etc that came with the Amati? Can you play throat Bb that is right above A? If not, then you have something in your register tube.
Take of the key with an eyeglass screwdriver. Push a pipecleaner through the tube and something will pop out and into the bore. Put the key back on- be careful to align the spring.
good luck-
Happy New Year
-S
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2006-12-26 01:12
Try playing your Vito first, then switch over the mouthpiece/reed to the Amati (assuming it fits nicely into the barrel). Then test the two.
If you are still having problems with only the Amati then try the above suggestions. Otherwise I'm going to guess that some of the lower pads are not sealing properly, thus wen you get to the register notes that they are not coming out.
THe Amati are not too bad horns for the money but from other posters the lowest post is apparently press-fit in and comes loose (at least on the full-boehm models). See if that post is loose at all and push back in.
Otherwise, another recommendation is to take it to a local technician if you are not comfortable with fiddling with your clarinet. (or send it back and get a replacement from where it was purchased).
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-12-26 08:42
Sheri,
playing Amatis myself I can only say that the lowest two pads need a little time and playing to comfortably set. Playing the middle-staff B might be difficult first, but from D onwards it should be really easy. (I suppose you mean the throat A when you say "clarion A").
What happens when you play scales from above-staff C down to low (chalumeau) E? Any notes missing or impossible to blow?
PS: I haven't ever used the stock Amati mouthpiece (I was used to my Hite then and saw no reason to switch), so it might be a mouthpiece issue as well.
--
Ben
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2006-12-26 13:54
Hello All,
Folks...Clarion A is the A above the staff. So throat tone A is one octave below this and is really the penultimate note of the Chalumeau register.
Whether we are speaking of throat tone A or clarion A, neither of these notes can be related to any of the lower mechanisms of the clarinet. Both are too high in the tube.
Don't get too discouraged Sheri! I am unfamiliar with Amati clarinets, but it may need an adjustment (at worst) or you just need to acclimatize yourself to it (at best). Really, neither of these options is bad.
Along the lines that GBK suggested: What mouthpiece and reed are you using?
Good Luck!
James Tobin
Gnothi Seauton
Post Edited (2006-12-26 13:57)
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Author: CuppaChai
Date: 2006-12-26 15:17
HI! No advice, but I just got my clarinet for Christmas, the one that has been in storage at my dad's house for the last 15 years. I too am going to pick it back up after all this time (need to condition it for a couple of weeks first). Good luck to you!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-12-26 16:22
If there is a repair tech in your town you should take it in for an inspection and explain your problem. Sometimes keys can get bent slightly in shipping and it will need a "set-up." Any music store where instruments are sold should be able to help you.
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Author: sherihand
Date: 2006-12-26 16:44
Thanks so much for all the replies. There is no technician in my area available until after the New Year. I have been playing on the instrument about 10 minutes at a time for the past two days and it is helping some. The main notes giving me trouble are B, C and D (staff). There is a clamping down feeling I get or it sometimes squeeks first before the note comes out. I put a Vandoren B45 mouthpiece with a Vandoren 2.5 reed on and that helped some though I think the tone quality wasn't as good. Perhaps the instrument needs a little adjusting? It is just frustrating to not know whether it's me or the horn as I'm inexperienced and our small town doesn't have many resources, either.
Regards all,
Sheri
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Author: susieray
Date: 2006-12-26 17:10
Sheri,
If you were doing fine on the Vito then it's probably NOT you. Likely it is something very easy to fix and just needs a minor adjustment. If it were me, I'd just just keep practicing on the Vito until I could have someone look at that Amati.
Sue
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2006-12-26 17:19
Given the symptoms you are describing and the fact that you aren't having similar problems with the Vito, if Eb and above are OK, my prime suspect would be a leak in the lower joint G#/Eb pad -- either the pad not seating properly (a common problem easily fixed by a repair tech) or, perhaps, insufficient spring tension allowing it to open a little from air pressure in the bore (another common problem easily fixed by a repair tech) or a misaligned post (repairable or, perhaps, grounds for requesting a replacement instrument).
Here is a simple test you can do to see if you have a leak. Take your lower joint and rest the end of the bore against your leg so that the end is sealed off. Then, with your right hand, close the tone holes with your first three fingers and close the E/B key in the right-hand pinky cluster. Now suck on the upper end of the instrument. You should create a fairly strong vacuum that seals well and holds for at least several seconds after you have stopped sucking. If it you don't get a good vacuum, you have a leak somewhere in the joint (as long as you've done the test right). If it does seal, try blowing through the joint. Start gently, then increase the air pressure. You should feel solid resistance. If you have a pad that isn't closing completely, you should notice a leak at fairly low pressure. If you have decent resistance with low pressure but something opens up as the pressure increases, it could very likely be the G#/Eb key because it's only being held closed by spring pressure. However, as you perform the test also be very aware of where your fingers are and whether you may be inadvertently brushing (and slightly opening) the "sliver" key when you hold all the notes down.
Also, if you feel a leak when you do the "blow" test, try pressing the Eb pad cup directly with a finger on your left hand and see if it begins to seal.
While you're at it, you might try the same test with your upper joint. If you try these tests, let us know how they come out and perhaps someone will be able to give additional guidance.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: sherihand
Date: 2006-12-26 22:26
jnk,
I tried the tests you suggested. Assuming I did them correctly my Amati seems to be sealing up fine. I sucked and blowed and there were no drafts in either joint. I did discover that the lower joint on my Vito was very windy. Do you suppose that the screws are just too tight? I don't know if that makes a difference or not. Staff B, C and D and occassionally Eb are giving me such trouble, to the point of not playing at all or squeeking only or squeeking first then playing.
Anyway, I appreciate the tip. Maybe someone has some more suggestions for me to try before I die of impatience waiting for the technician to be back from holiday!!
Happy New Year,
Sheri
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2006-12-26 23:17
One other tip would be to be careful of your embouchure when playing those notes on that clarinet! Don't change in anticipation of a squeak/leak!
Not that you are, but a reminder nonetheless!
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Author: brsmith
Date: 2006-12-27 02:47
Check the screw on the A key. If this pad is not closing, you need to very slightly loosen this screw until there is a very small amount of play between the A key and the A flat key.
This is a common problem.
brsmith
www.brsmusic.net
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2006-12-27 04:21
A question and something else for you to try (while you're whiling away the hours awaiting the repair tech's return). First the question: do you notice any stuffiness/resistance at all in your lower register E, F, G and G#?
Now the suggestion. If the issue is a leak, it should be above the keys that are having problems. Since you sometimes have trouble with the Eb, an open hole note, I would now look a little higher. As you play the notes, check to make absolutely sure that you are not inadvertently touching the sliver key on the lower joint. If you can rule that out as a problem, the next place I would check is the pad at the very top of the lower joint. In this latter case, a contributing factor may be the bridge mechanism. Try assembling your clarinet. Now turn the lower joint about a 8th of a turn clockwise, at least far enough to disengage the bridge mechanism completely. Now try playing the problem notes. If the problems pretty much go away, the bridge mechanism may be slightly out of alignment causing a leak, either at the top pad of the lower joint if it can't close entirely or in the upper joint. (The suck and blow tests won't catch a bridge problem because it is disengaged when you perform them.) If the bridge mechanism is the issue I would recommend you leave repairing it to a professional.
BTW, whlle I wouldn't eliminate anything out of hand, I think the screw in the G# key is probably not the problem here because: (1) the suck and blow tests should detect a leak in the upper joint if this is the issue and (2) the problem notes should normally extend further up the instrument.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-12-27 08:16
Okay...I know that an Amati is shaped ever so slightly differently than a Vito - I inadvertedly touched the C#/G# key with my third finger, leaving the clarion notes below more or less inoperable. I had to bend the key (cautiously!) away a bit.
Try to exaggerate your finger positions a bit just to see if it changes any and have a friend check if you're touching something you shouldn't.
And relax. Maybe the anticipation will do the rest...
--
Ben
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2006-12-27 16:20
Hello all,
Sheri, Jack's vacuum tests are one you should remember. They come in handy any time that you experience questions of leaks in any portion of the clarinet.
My question for you is this: initially you complained about the clarion A (above the staff). Is this still a problem? Or are the clarion B/C/D the problem? (or both?)
One is in the upper joint, and the other the lower joint!
Nonetheless, all of Jack's advice has been right on the money. Agreeing with Jack, if you had a leak around the throat tone A/G# key you would have difficulty playing low notes: they would all sound in the clarion as if you were pushing your register key.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-12-27 17:28
"I got a brand new Amati model 314 for Christmas this morning and I could not get a sound to come out after the clarion A. I am so discouraged. I thought a nice new instrument would help me play with more ease, not cause me to not play at all. Does anyone have any suggestions or tips?"
Hi Sheri,
As it's a brand new clarinet, the only advice I would give to you is take it back to where you got it from and have the repairer check it as it should be under warranty (when they're open again!) - but in the meantime, don't adjust anything or get anyone else to take a screwdriver to it or this will invalidate the warranty. No matter how simple the repair could be, it's best not to touch anything if you're not sure what you're doing, or at worst, invalidate the warranty and end up having to foot the bill for something that you may not have done which could be the manufacturer's error which slipped through quality control, or damage during transport.
Best be safe than sorry.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-12-27 22:16
Jack wrote about good diagnostic approaches, but I totally agree with Chris.
Unless you already KNOW that you know what you are doing, you should not be doing it!
Most new clarinets need some adjustment, and unfortunately, few shops seem to do this before display or sale. (It would eat too much into their meagre profits? Or the technician is far too busy on other work?) Just a reality of the modern world.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-12-27 23:15
Gordon,
I agree. But I think we're not quite unblameable for this situation - we're actively partaking in that game. Countless references to the cheapest source for XYZ followed by the lamentation about Buffet tightening the screws in the sales channels and so on speak for themselves.
Maybe we're a bit unfair in that specific case - it was a gift, and we know nothing about the fine print in that deal - might include free adjustments for xy months, might include nothing - we don't know.
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-12-28 00:18
If it's new, it ought to be covered for 6 months minimum (and up to 12 months maximum), plus a free checkover before the warranty expires just to make sure everything is in good order.
Even shop bought used instruments should come with a warranty.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2006-12-28 04:25
Well, she got it from under the Christmas tree and I doubt taking it back there will get it fixed. Santa won't be back until next year even if he repairs what he delivers. 
I absolutely agree that Sheri shouldn't try to repair the instrument. That's why I was careful not to recommend anything other than harmless diagnostics. What I was actually trying to do was verify that the problem was with the instrument and not something Sheri was doing, e.g., inadvertently brushing the sliver key.
If, as I infer from Sheri's messages, she doesn't live near a large city and if this was a mail-order rather than local purchase (not too many small-town mom-and-pops carry Amati), a competent local repair tech might prove a more efficient solution (e.g., for minor adjustments) than shipping the instrument back to the seller. (Remember, like Santa, not all sellers repair what they sell.) If the instrument was purchased mail order, I think it might be worthwhile for Sheri to have a local tech look it over to make sure the problem is serious before she ships it back.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-12-28 10:29
True, Chris and Jack.
Each country has different legal responsibilities re guarantees, which complicates discussions on such issues in international forums.
In my country the comsumer guarantee laws are very strong in favour of the buyer, and the involvement of Santa would be a total red herring.
But yes I agree, correcting something probably relatively straight-forward such as this locally would in many cases be cheaper than the complications of getting the seller to correct it.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2006-12-28 13:46
Not only would it be faster and less expensoive to have a local tech look it over (in most cases), but it would also give the local shop some of her business, which would help to keep them afloat. Whenever possible, I like to buy locally, so that the store will remain in business and be there for me when I need it on short notice. We can't always wait for the mail to bring whatever item we need from the big mail-order houses, and for repairs, if you have a competent local tech available, it's better to have him or her look the instrument over, rather than deal with the hassles of shipping an instrument twice, and inviting more problems with each shipping.
Jeff
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Author: sherihand
Date: 2006-12-28 20:33
Well, I was able to see a "string guy" at the music store today. He doesn't work on woodwinds but I guess he's exposed to them enough to point out a few flaws on the Amati. It needs a possible bridge key alignment and who knows what other alignments after that. He guessed it would be about $60 worth of work. I have decided to send the instrument back to where it was purchased (Musician's Friend). They are out of stock of that model so that leaves me with a few possibilities. I will post a separate thread about this in hopes that I can get some other great advice.
Sheri
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-12-28 23:01
I would be very, very wary about letting a "string" guy loose on your clarinet. That could be likened to letting a cabinet maker loose on your vehicle repairs. Or the car mechanic loose on your cabinet making.
Find oujt where long-standing local clarinet teachers and performers get their instruments serviced. Keep asking people until a pattern emerges.
Post Edited (2006-12-28 23:03)
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