 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Anon
Date: 2006-11-01 22:26
I teach privately at an arts high school, grades 4-12. Today a non-music teacher approached me and told me that she'd like to buy a clarinet for a needy 4th grader who is showing a lot of interest. I don't have the child in my studio yet but I understand from the artistic director that what she is currently using is a disaster.
This young woman is doing this out of the goodness of her heart and I don't want her to spend more than necessary but I also want her to get a good clarinet.
Bearing in mind that the kid is only nine years old, do you have any suggestions? My first thought was the Buffet B12 but even those are around $400-500 these days. I'd like to present her with some options.
Anyone know anything about WWBW's "Barrington" clarinet? Or the plastic Amati models?
Isn't that the nicest gesture you've heard today?!?! :-)
Thanks,
Marianne
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-11-01 22:40
So....what is she currently using? Perhaps someone would make a gesture to fix it.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-11-01 22:41
The B12 or Yamaha YCL-250 are both safe bets.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: D
Date: 2006-11-02 09:20
Before you go too far down this road, is it actually legal and/or approved of by the school for a teacher to show that much 'favouritism' to one pupil? It is a lovely gesture, but given the current climate of deep suspicion surrounding everything to do with children I'd check out any ramifications before letting this teacher shell out the cash. Is this something the other kids in the school are going to know about? What sort of reaction would that get?
Sorry to be such a bore, but the world is not always a place where a charitable act will not cause trouble.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2006-11-02 13:06
-- "It is a lovely gesture, but given the current climate of deep suspicion surrounding everything to do with children I'd check out any ramifications before letting this teacher shell out the cash." --
So she can do it anonymously.
If we start going down this road, we'll start to stop giving to charities. After all, building a new school house in Tanzania may be viewed with deep suspicion!
As for the climate of deep suspicion, most of that has been invented, fuelled and milked for all it's worth by the British tabloid press. Most people are not all suspicious but are now used to being told what to say and think! :-(
Steve
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-11-02 13:49
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the "Forte" clarinet as an option for this student.
http://www.doctorsprod.com/forte.html
With it's $400 price point, and all the attractive extras that come along with the purchase, I should think this would be a very good choice.
Susan
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Author: Ed
Date: 2006-11-02 14:00
There is a used Forte clarinet currently on the classifieds at a really good price. I have not yet played one.
My favorite student clarinets are the Yamahas.
Post Edited (2006-11-02 15:20)
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Author: D
Date: 2006-11-02 14:10
steve
I really wasn't trying to be nasty, but some schools are uber strict about these things. i know mine would have forbidden it completely.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2006-11-02 14:30
Hi D,
No I know you weren't. Sorry if I gave that impression. It's just a bit sad. I've been doing charity work with kids for a long time and have never encountered any problems whatsoever in people donating items to kids.
"i know mine would have forbidden it completely."
But surely it's up to the parents as well? My kids go to a school with a great music department and I can't imagine for one second the teachers refusing the gift of an instrument.
Steve
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-11-02 14:45
Oh yeah, I forgot the Forte was plastic, so it's a better bet than the standard plastic Amati - even though the Forte made by Amati it is better specified than the Amati.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tedm
Date: 2006-11-02 14:48
this is a tough question, since most experienced forum folks, band directors, and folks with retail experience have not tried everything out there, or have possibly used a brand that has since gotten better.
There's a lot of great info. on this board, especially the list in the "Equipment" section of low cost models that may have issues.
Our family just bought 3 clarinets, all used in the last 3 months. The first was an Artley 17S for $150 in great used condition, checked out at a clarinet shop, the 2nd one off the auction site for $50 that turned out to be in the same great condition as the first (and for $100 less!), and the third is a Buffet B12 Crampon for about $200 used that is supposed to be in exc. cond., haven't tried it yet.
At one point I was looking for only a Leblanc Vito since a band director said students using these had the highest retention rates, but I couldn't find a good deal on one, they seemed $100 more or so than Artley's and no one was sure if they were really much better, but in any case they are highly regarded as are the Buffets, Yamahas, Selmers, etc.
Check the classifieds here, and look for bargains on the auction site, but realize that anything bought sight unseen by a pro, may need work, hopefully very minor.
2 Artley 17S & 1 Buffet B12 Crampon
Post Edited (2006-11-02 18:21)
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2006-11-02 17:28
I second the recommendation for the Forte for a new horn. In a used horn there are a lot of good Vito's on ebay for less than 100. I have a Vito and it does very well.
Leonard
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Author: FrankM
Date: 2006-11-02 18:48
I teach science in a high school but am very involved in the music program ( from the sidelines). Several years ago, I was practicing during my lunch break, and a little girl came in and said she always wanted to play the clarinet but her parents could not afford one. I checked with her teacher, and was told she often expressed an interest playing the clarinet, but her parents said they couldn’t afford one. Being the sap that I am, I ( through the music department) lent her one of my old plastic clarinets. They gave it to her and she was delighted. I went home with that nice feeling you get when you repay the world for all your good fortune. Imagine my surprise when I found out her parents flipped, were very angry at me, and basically felt I had no business giving the horn to her. I later found out the parents could have easily afforded one, but for whatever reason, they did not want her playing the clarinet. I still have never figured out the reason behind this entire incident.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-11-02 20:57
The Forte and Dr. Henderson are highly recommended. Email him before you buy anything else.
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Author: tedm
Date: 2006-11-02 22:01
huh? What's the difference between a forte and a Dr. Henderson? Are they not the same clarinet?
Are either of these better than an Artley 17S or Buffet B12, (or any of the dozens of other recommended ones?)?
What does the "dr." tell you in email that he can't on a forum??
2 Artley 17S & 1 Buffet B12 Crampon
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-11-02 22:18
(Disclaimer - I am maker of the Forte' Bb and C clarinets)
Most people call me the Doctor and I sell the Forte' on my web site in addition to the dedicated Forte' clarinet web site. I dropped the alias of "Doctor" on the BB several years ago because others were plagiarizing my research as their own and so now I use my real name on posts. Rules of self promotion on the BB require that I just give the facts with no interpretation or boasting or downgrading other instrument maker’s products. Let others make the comparisons.
L. Omar Henderson
Doctor's Products - www.doctorsprod.com
Forte' Instrument Group - www.forteclarinet.com
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-11-02 22:20
tedm wrote:
> huh? What's the difference between a forte and a Dr. Henderson?
A Forte is a clarinet, a Dr. Henderson is a person (who happens to be the designer of the Forte clarinet).
> Are either of these better than an Artley 17S or Buffet B12,
> (or any of the dozens of other recommended ones?)?
There are a number of reviews of the Forte here that answer that question.
> What does the "dr." tell you in email that he can't on a
> forum??
Depends on the question, doesn't it?
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Author: Anon
Date: 2006-11-02 22:44
Thank you all for your suggestions - I will definitely give your information plus the opinions I have about instruments to the teacher and let her make the decision.
To answer a few things above: To my knowledge the gift is being given anonymously and, since she already plays the instrument, I can only hope that her parents will accept the gift graciously and know that someone just wanted to give their little girl an opportunity.
Thanks
:-)
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Author: tedm
Date: 2006-11-02 23:18
Thank you Omar Henderson for the clarification.
I have read most all articles on this great forum, and have heard only positive things about your clarinets and products.
However, I have not found direct comparisons of your clarinet with others such as the Artley 17S or Buffet B12, as to why they are better products than others, or better values, though certainly it is a fact that a new $400 product is less than a new $600 product if comparing strictly price.
If I've missed the qualitative or objective reviews, or you aren't allowed to post the links to articles on this site alluded to by others, you are free to email them to me. I've read everything on your website. Thanks.
2 Artley 17S & 1 Buffet B12 Crampon
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-11-03 01:17
Disclaimer - I sell Forte' Bb and C clarinets)
Head to head comparisons are rare and even if attempted they would be small samples of the spectrum of performance of any given clarinet model with the other. For the most part many members of the BB are exposed, either through their own experience or through close associates or students, with a given brand and model over time. The given comparisons are with a sample of the new model in comparison with their previous experience. Forte' is relatively new on the scene since many of the other models have been around and relatively unchanged for a quarter century. I am encouraged by the reviews of Forte' by various BB members with their previous experience with other models but again, head to head comparisons are rare and very subjective. Certain models seem to rise to a greater consensus than others but a general consensus as head and shoulders above all others is a rare bird when it comes to clarinets.
L. Omar Henderson
Post Edited (2006-11-03 01:18)
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Author: Avie
Date: 2006-11-03 12:37
Are the student models Artley, B12 Buffet, Vito, Amati, Barrington and Forte considered to be over and above the Selmer and Yamaha student models today? If a 4th grader is showing more interest than the average maybe he should have the best student model available or maybe deserving of an R13?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-11-03 14:34
If the fourth-grader is good enough, an "intermediate" model might be advisable, if only to reward him/her for the enthusiasm and diligence. I'd guess that the student/intermediate/professional ranges overlap - a good intermediate model may be a better performer than a bad pro model.
Restricting yourself to a certain name/model might be more expensive than necessary...
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-11-03 16:04
Ermmm... would you trust a 4th grader to look after an R13 (or any pro wooden clarinet)?
Even if they do show interest, it's in their best interest to have a clarinet that's easy to look after (ie. a plastic bodied one) and well built to withstand the stresses it will encounter during school life, and ugrade to a pro model when they're being hindered, though I know many good players that still play on their plastic clarinet and get the same results.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: joeyscl
Date: 2006-11-08 04:17
Private schools aren't exactly free to go to... and they aren't cheap either.
Can't the kid afford a clarinet of his/her own?
If he/she "shows interest", doen't that mean he is starting out?
I'd say you go for a beginner clarinet, and if he/she is really THAT interested, he/she can upgrade to a Intermediate or Pro horn of his/her own.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2006-11-08 06:35
"I'd say you go for a beginner clarinet, and if he/she is really THAT interested, he/she can upgrade to a Intermediate or Pro horn of his/her own."
I second that. There's a reason why there are gaps for beginning, intermediate, and pro model clarinets. But aside from it's quality of material, the price ultimately determines one's commitment to furthering advancement as an artist or just someone who appreciates beautiful music. granted, there are many clarinets to choose from, make sure that the clarinet is not too basic and has room to grow. At 4th grade, kids are excited about everything. it might run into an encounter where the student picks up the instrument for a couple of months and says.... this just doesn't fit me.
thus start small. plastic is a good bet, but if the student implores or is very meticulous about his sound (not in a selfish bitter materialistic way of WHAT ARE YOU USING ON YOUR ...... or .....) and focuses on making music as an individual or team, then a intermediate wood clarinet would definitely satisfy those needs.
kudos to you though for helping the student out. and i too hope that the parents won't be offended by having their child accept gifts and take it the wrong way.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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