 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: chipper
Date: 2006-10-30 14:22
Although I've read an explaination, could someone explain to me why, when tuning to my dulcimer buddy's tuner my C comes across as a D? I'm a rather new player and can play reasonably well with our community band as they supply a score in the correct key, but when trying to play with others in my living room I cannot mesh. I understand I must transpose, but how and why?
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2006-10-30 14:31
You have to read the notes on the page as if they were a whole step higher. (therefore a C on the page is a D for you.)
It will help if you add two sharps to the key signature. (if the piece is in the key of C, you are in the key of D. If in the key of F, you're in the key of G)
The clarinet is keyed in Bb. Meaning, when you finger C on our instrument, it plays a concert instruments Bb. (piano, cello, oboe, flute, dulcimer, etc...)
That's the life of a clarinetist.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: BassClarinet21
Date: 2006-10-30 14:35
If you a Concert pitch instrument is playing a Bb concert scale all you have to do is play the C major scale. Clarinet, trumpet, tenor sax, are all Major pitched instruments.
The note you start on in a scale is the title of the Major scale.
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2006-10-30 15:09
If you're going to play with folk instruments a lot of the time, why not just get a Forte C clarinet?
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-10-30 16:11
I would second the C clarinet suggestion.
Your clarinet is pitched in Bb because most music for the clarinet was played by military musicians for many years, and a Bb instrument fits well with the Bb brass and other Bb horns used with those groups. As the "norm", it became the most common, even though C and A instruments are "often" used with orchestral settings.
If you are not up to transposition (and some never master it, hard as they may try, then a C instrument is the only way to go. This is not a cowards way out - Turkish musicians have used a peculiar G clarinet for centuries to meld with their peculiar instrumentation, so there's no reason why a "folk" oriented clarinetist couldn't go the same way.
The Forte C horn referred to is a "learners" instrument officially, but it would serve just about anyone just fine for such casual use.
Alternatively, you could ask everyone else to transpose their parts so that you could play in the key of C on your instrument. I have found that asking most guitar, mandolin, dulcimer and other such folks to transpose returns a nasty glare, however.
I even got asked once to "take it down a half step" by a guitar player who insisted upon playing with my group.
(This request came about two minutes before it was time for him to do the song, without any prior warning, and would have required smooth transposition by seventeen other people, all so he could strum along in the key of G. The rhythm guitar part was in too difficult a key for him to strum along while doing his vanity vocal with the group.
After pointing out that he had refused several requests to rehearse his star turn with us prior to the performance, I had my guitar guy handle the part (which he did without a problem).
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: allencole
Date: 2006-10-30 17:14
Nothing wrong with a C clarinet. Too what Terry said, I would add two things:
1 - Klezmer musicians often use clarinets pitched in D, I believe, for the same reasons as the Turks using G instruments.
2 - Clarinets of different sizes have different sounds, and this can be best illustrated by comparing B-flat and A horns. The B-flat instrument has a very good blend of brightness and darkness, and has become the standard. (I think that the first clarinets scored for orchestra were in D)
We might've assigned the notes their proper concert pitches, but this means that you'd have different fingerings for each note depending on the size clarinet you play. Kinda like with recorders pitched in C & F. In order for fingerings and written notes to have a consistent relationship, the music needs to be transposed for each size of instrument. Ditto for saxophones. (I think this was from the Pino book)
In fact, some brass instruments have optional parts in B-flat transposition so that trumpet players can take them on with a minimum of fingering confusion.
Allen Cole
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Author: chipper
Date: 2006-10-30 17:54
Thanks all, and especially Allen Cole. I understand it is so that horns with different sounds, brighter, darker, have the same fingering. OK. I love this instrument and will continue to gain profeciency. Our chair first sax told me that when I grow up I'll graduate to the sax. Given the complexity, dynamic range and versitility of the clarinet, me thinks it 'tother way 'round.
By the way: I survived my first summer concert series with the Auburn Civic Band. Most of the players came of age shortly after WW II and marches were the music they cut their teeth on. Yikes!!! How many times do we repeat that bar??? What tempo?? Where are we anyway? Aw heck, the other third can cary us on this piece, I'll pretend to play and catch up next song. Wow, trial by fire, but now we're into the Christmas music and I find myself actually contributing. They are so gracious to have me.
Loving it.
C
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Author: John25
Date: 2006-10-31 20:18
I disagree about clarinets being in Bb because they were used in military bands. There were no military bands until the nineteenth century, and the Bb clarinet was established as the most common model of instrument many years before. It was purely a matter of tone quality. The Bb clarinet is much rounder in sound than the C, and that's why it became the most common of the clarinets.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-10-31 21:19
"The Bb clarinet is much rounder in sound than the C, and that's why it became the most common of the clarinets."
This is conventional wisdom, for sure, but is there actually any evidence for it? Is there a book dating back to 1800 or so that actually says this? Or are we just assuming that this was the reason?
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Maarten
Date: 2006-11-01 11:31
Allen Cole wrote:
"2 - Clarinets of different sizes have different sounds, and this can be best illustrated by comparing B-flat and A horns. The B-flat instrument has a very good blend of brightness and darkness, and has become the standard. (I think that the first clarinets scored for orchestra were in D)"
I'm not sure which pitch was first, but in Mozarts time mainly A, Bb and also C were used. I heard people used different clarinets because some raised or lowered notes were impossible on the earliest clarinets, and at least difficult or not sounding very well on many of the earlier horns. By staying in keys without many flats or sharps, these could be circumvented. With clarinets in diffferent pitches you can choose the right key to play in.
btw, I don't agree that differently pitched instruments sound differently. I don't hear _any_ difference between, say, a concert D on my A and Bb clarinets. Of course, this is not a double-blind test. If someone with a good microphone (I don't have one) would record playing, it would be very easy to see if there is difference in the spectra. Add in a different brand of clarinet to make it scientifically sound.
Maarten
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-11-01 21:37
"I disagree about clarinets being in Bb because they were used in military bands. There were no military bands until the nineteenth century, and the Bb clarinet was established as the most common model of instrument many years before."
This would come as a shock to all of those European clarinet players that trudged all over Europe during the Revolutionary and French Imperial Wars. A standard French regimental band would carry, in addition to a couple bassoons, four oboes (German style), your trumpets and trombones (some with the infamous rearward facing bells), a set of Turkish bells (aka "jingling Johnny") and the rest of the military percussion, there would be four clarinets pitched in Bb.
Not every regiment had them, but all of the "crack" units strove to field such an outfit, it being seen as a mark of prestige by their commanding officers (who paid for the equipment and hiring (but not rations and military pay) out of their own pockets.
I'm not as conversant with nations other than the French, but the French at least had piles of them Bb clarinets, by Ned. (German military music was pretty oboe heavy, or so I've read. English had clarinets, but the bands were rare. Don't know about Austro-Hungarian or Russian bands.)
The first "modern" bass clarinet (pitched in C) was fielded by the field music of the French Imperial Guard, back in 1812 or thereabouts. One likes to think that it made it back from Moscow.
As for the tonality issue, we tried this pretty extensively back in my college days in Springfield MO in the 1960's. We tried C, Bb and A horns, playing pre-transposed music (so as to avoid transposition awkwardness), players behind a screen and all of that. No difference was noticed, at least not one that was consistent across all of the music with all of the horns. It convinced me...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-11-02 02:39
>Our chair first sax told me that when I grow up I'll graduate to the sax.
>Given the complexity, dynamic range and versitility of the clarinet,
> me thinks it 'tother way 'round.
you have that right ; your sax dude seems to be misguided
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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