 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2006-10-29 12:58
I have always seen the name of Prokofief's suite spelled "Lietenant Kiji" and was confused when people pronounced it Kije'.
A quick Google search turned up both spellings, sometimes even on the same page. It seems that, at the Paris premiere in 1934, it was spelled Kije.
Any idea why it would be spelled "Kiji"?
Some musicalogical input would be appreciated.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-29 13:29
It's down to whoever Anglicised (or Romanised?) the word and how they hear it when it's spoken - even Prokofiev has a multitude of spellings - that one being another.
Pretty common with any language that doesn't use the Roman alphabet.
I've always seen it as 'Kije'.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-10-29 13:51
Since it's a transliteration(the Russian alphabet is different), there are always variables. Neither is right or wrong. Note the many different ways we see Tchaikovsky's name spelled.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-29 14:11
And the language it's translated into has a different take on the spelling, take the 'Ch' sound (as in 'cheese' or 'change') - in Russian that's only one character 'Ч', whereas in English we usually spell that sound as 'Ch', in French it's 'Tch' and in German it's 'Tsch'.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-10-29 14:16
Same reason "A Night on Bald Mountain" is listed as "A Night on Bare Mountain".
Bob Draznik
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2006-10-29 14:35
It has been so long since Iv'e heard "Lieutenant Kije" (or Kiji) that I neew to get on the auction place and see if I can find a copy that I can afford -- on CD, LP's, or 78's (it would take too many cylinder changes to bother with them!). Eu
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-29 17:43
Why do we pronounce Lieutenant as 'Leff-tenant' in the UK?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-10-29 18:00
Chris - Various explanations, none very convincing, in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieutenant#Pronunciation.
The misreading of lieu as liev seems to me to be marginally less improbable than the others.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-10-29 21:08
Larry; Belvoir Castle is indeed pronounced Beaver Carsell.
Gloucester is Gloster
Leicester is Lester
Bicester is Bister
Reading (the town, not the activity) is Redding
Beaulieu is Bewley
Ralph Vaughan Williams is Rafe Vorn Wilyumz (though many people wrongly use the more modern/common pronunciation Ralf)
Magdalene College Cambridge is Mordlin and Caius is Keys
Kneed eye go wan?
Edit: Mark - you might want to adjust the clock on the BBoard. I think your intention is to be on GMT all year. In the summer, we in England are 1 hour ahead of GMT, and you are one hour behind us. We have now changed to GMT, and you are STILL one hour behind us. It is 22:10 here, but this posting will appear to have been made at 21:10.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
Post Edited (2006-10-29 21:10)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-10-29 21:32
David Peacham wrote:
> Gloucester is Gloster
> Leicester is Lester
> Bicester is Bister
> Reading (the town, not the activity) is Redding
> Beaulieu is Bewley
As anyone in the New England area would know, too ...
Mark C.
(born in Leominster, MA, pronounced Lemonsta, not so far from Woosta, I mean Worchester  )
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-29 22:06
Featherstonehaugh is pronounced Fanshaw,
Hunstanton - Hunston,
Beauchamp - Beecham,
Steyning - Stenning...
Not to forget Towcester which is pronounced Toaster.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2006-10-29 22:47
Here in Arkansas when one's hands are dirty, they worsh them.
In NYC when one witnesses an event, they sawr it.
In Bahston, they pock the cah.
Now, is Worcestershire also Woorster?
However it's pronounced, is there a good recording of "Lieutenant Kije"?
Eu
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Author: jez
Date: 2006-10-29 22:49
Mark C.
Leominster, Ma. may well be pronounced as you describe, but the one in Herefordshire is pronounced 'Lemster'
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Author: jez
Date: 2006-10-29 23:14
Chris P
All these bizarre pronunciations must seem easy for you. I can't begin to think how to say your surname!
jez
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-29 23:26
It's either Perry-ahh or Perry-ag. I use the latter. Maybe I ought to change it to Perry.
Worcester is Wooster, with a short 'oo'.
Isn't Slaithwaite (up Huddersfield way) pronounced Sla-waite?
And Slaugham (W. Sussex, near Handcross) - is it pronounced Sluffam or Slaarm?
One of the finishers was going on about his Arkansas stone (pronouncing it phonetically Ar-kan'-zas), he wasn't convinced when I told him it's pronounced 'Ark'n'sore'.
Oi'd imajin the Rushun Stay' Orkistra or-ta be neeah the top o' the list where Leftenun' Keezhay recowdins are consurn'd. Person'ly Oi'd go for the Berlin Phiw one.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2006-10-29 23:28)
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Author: jez
Date: 2006-10-29 23:41
Chris
Slaithwaite rhymes with 'plough it'
Anything south of Crewe is entirely beyond my experience.
jez
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2006-10-30 05:59
For those who care, Поручик Киже is photetically pronounced:
Po-ru-cheek Kee-zhe
where the o and u in Поручик are long and the zh is like the s in vision.
I wasn't really convinced something of a conclusive answer had been found yet. Hope this helps.
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