 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: stole16
Date: 2006-10-28 22:15
Situation: I was playing in an orchestra a few months ago and we were rehearsing the Korngold violin concerto. I was doubling the first part with another player. At the last practice before a concert dress rehearsal, the conductor decided he wanted some of the clarinet passages played just one on a part, and told me to play them. When I'd been playing the part with the other person for the past several weeks it was sounding fine, and I had been confident that I knew the part.
Well, for whatever reason, whether it was an off-night for me or I really didn't know the part as well as I'd thought I did, I kept making mistakes. The director kept making play it in front of the entire orchestra even as I sat there pretty much in tears, with each reptition just getting worse. After a good five minutes of this he finally stopped and moved on with the rehearsal. Pretty much everyone I talked to thought he'd crossed the line.
When I contacted him via e-mail later in the week to discuss the situation, he basically told me that his point in what he'd done was to show me how "stressful" playing principal can be. He showed no regard for my feelings or the type of person I am and the fact that I don't usually like a lot of attention brought on me in any situation good or bad.
Don't get me wrong, I understand the importance of knowing your music and being able to accept constructive criticism, but I'm curious what you guys think. Keeping in mind this is a high school youth orchestra and not the New York Phil, what are some opinions?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-10-28 23:15
stole16 wrote:
> or the type of person I am
> and the fact that I don't usually like a lot of attention
> brought on me in any situation good or bad.
Then, perhaps playing principal clarinet is not for you at this time.
I think what the director did, although harsh for you, was perfectly within the domain of those who have the responsibility of playing principal.
You weren't sufficiently prepared and he caught you.
Lesson learned - the hard way ...GBK
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Author: olewannabe88
Date: 2006-10-28 23:36
In my opinion, the director deciding at the very last minute what will be solo material is poor planning on his part. If this was a one-time incident that you weren't playing well, I'd say he should have cut you a break. We all have off-days once in a while. Plus, it's a youth orchestra, not the professional world. Students at that age haven't always committed themselves to it for life yet, and have to balance practicing with school, homework and a social life if they so choose. I wouldn't say the director had no right to do what he did, because you weren't playing well, but there seem like there could have been other ways to go about making sure you understood the importance of being prepared.
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2006-10-29 00:15
It is impossible for us to know the motives of the director. On the surface it sounds a little harsh.
For some reason it seems that many people in positions of authority seem to think that public humiliation is the best way to get someone to work harder.
In some cases they may be right, but in others this only discourages the student, employee, or whaterever.
Many band directors have at one time been exposed to this kind of treatment in the past. Many conductors and directors of the "old school" used to shout, break batons, throw things etc., if the playing wasn't to their liking. Somehow they were able to use "artistic temperament" as a sort of shield.
This style of "teaching" is now frowned upon, but in some cases some directors will revert to this style.
This same behaviour is often exhibited by sports coaches. When I was in high school (decades ago) I had a "Bobby Knight" of a band director. He humiliated me, at age thirteen, in front of the whole high school band.
In retrospect, I'm sure his motive was to get me to practice more, but the result was that I quit playing for about thirty five years or so.
A "macho" 13 year old, proud of his newly sprouted biceps, and doing his best to impress the babes, won't put up with being humiliated in front of 60
schoolmates representing all six years that the school covered.
Looking back at it I wish he had come to me during our weekly individual sessions, and impressed upon me privately that I needed to practice more, but that wasn't his style.
Se' La' Vie
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2006-10-29 22:14
I have been in rehearsals like this. I have never been the point of scrutiny but I do know that this is a very difficult situation to be in.
I really want to say that this is not an uncommon situation nor do I really think it is outside the scope of the conductor's responsibilities. Like John said, some conductors will revert to this especially if they are frustrated already.
To be frank, you just have to suck it up. You already know why he did what he did. Was there a better alternative way to approach the situation? Probably, but your job is to play and if you didn't do that well, youth orchestra or not (I never had this in youth orch. but I did see this in my wind ensemble) you put you and the director in an awkward position: what do you do?
It's almost a coin flip. Just hope he/she's having a good day.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-10-30 12:01
You had better get a thicker skin if you're going to keep playing.
Bob Draznik
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Author: BassClarinet21
Date: 2006-10-30 14:08
I'm in middle school and am a very good bass clarinetist. My last years band director started working at an elementary school music class and now i'm stuck with a new one. This new band director is usally nice to the other students but he always has something to say about me. He always say I think I'm perfect and stuff; you have to understand It's not me who says that I'm a great player it is other people who give me compliments; such as my all county director last year, or my solo and ensemble guy, and fellow band students. I also don't show off like my friend billy who plays bari sax!
But for some reason I think my band director is intimidated by me and he plays euphonium!!!
Do you agree with me that hes intimidated?
Do you have an experiance somewhat like mine?
Please tell me your oppinion.
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2006-10-30 14:50
BassClarinet21,
It's hard to say whats going on with your band director but I would mention that I find it hard to believe your band director would be intimidated by you. It sounds like you are a young promising player but try to realize that your director is an adult and has been studying music most likely longer than you have been alive. Just stay humble and continue to work hard at your playing. Sometimes your body language in a rehearsal can give off a bad attitude and if you have ever said anything like what you wrote in your post to your friends......it could have gotten back to him! Maybe his wife or best friend is a great clarinet player and somehow he can sense your ego/confidence?
Also try to realize that there are probably 100 or more clarinetists in your grade and age group that are just as good or better in this country. My best advice is to stay humble and work hard. It's always been my experience that the people that focus on how good they are usually stop progressing at some point. Also try not to look for compliments from the director or your friends....just play your heart out and try and improve every day. Go to rehearsal with a smile on your face and focus on the positive. If things do not get better than next year will be different.
Good luck and keep working hard!
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Author: BassClarinet21
Date: 2006-10-30 15:28
I don't look for compliments, and acctually he is only 28.
I can't really respond to your answer/advice because I'm not sure what your saying. My other friend Caleb is a clarinetists that is very good to and he dislikes the band director as many of the more talented students do.
The only time he was somewhat nice to me is when I was practicing my audition for all state. If there are any more great middleschool students out there that you know Please let me talk to them.
Thank you.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-10-30 15:59
BassClarinet21 wrote:
> I don't look for compliments, and acctually he is only 28.
He's still twice your age and more than twice your experience.
Your posts come across as a bit conceited, so perhaps he sees that in you.
Middle school is a great time to sit back and enjoy yourself and not take things all too seriously. You've plenty of time to grow into being a good musician as well as being a good clarinetist.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-10-30 16:27
And, it may be that you are one of those folks who doesn't like to be criticized, either in positive or negative form. If that is the case, then as Mark said above, the best advice here is to suck up your pride (since he runs the musical group, not you) and practice more if needed to avoid a repetition.
We learn a lot in school about music, math, the English language and so forth, but skills to deal with harsh words from others are something that you either pick up from others, or you end up learning on your own. Those 28 years of life that he has been through have carried him through the "passage to adulthood" of which you are still blissfully ignorant (and, no, I am not saying that you are dumb, just not experienced) at this point in your life.
Some of us get a nice long educational experience, complete with four or six years of college, in which to develop these skills - the smart ones generally learn by the age of majority (18) how "the system works" and can deal with such things then. Others get thrown into the hopper early (we used to draft people into the armed services at that age), and they might have to learn a little quicker. But, some never learn no matter how long they try.
I've had occasion to use a talented college or high school student as a sub in my group from time to time. With them, I don't expect the same level of performance the first time through a particular piece, and I'll be pretty indulgent in their cases. I'd be even more indulgent if it was a middle schooler playing with us (although the multi-accidental key signatures we live in would scare most at that age out of their wits).
For the "pros", however, they need to do their learning the first time through (on the verse and first chorus) so by the time the del signo comes around, they are playing the part with all notes, articulations and dynamics. If they can't do it at that point, the commentary gets pretty scathing...
But, they are getting paid...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: BassClarinet21
Date: 2006-10-30 16:31
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that he didn't have twice+ the experience than I do. I know what both of you are saying, it is hard to belive that he would be somewhat intimidated, but that is what I feel when he talks to me.
Thanks for both of your oppinions!
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Author: BassClarinet21
Date: 2006-10-30 16:46
He doesn't critisize me on my playing he's just mean; I just don't like his way of directing. I guess i'll just deal with him this year and move on to M(r)s. Thorton!
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-10-30 17:49
Bassclarinet21 (aka Logan),
You are a 14 year old middle school student and you say your director is intimidated by you. You've got to be kidding! Did someone give you this idea?
I think you better discuss this with your parents. Maybe if you were 6 foot 5 and weighed 250 lbs. there might be some sort of physical size issue. Otherwise, get rid of these kinds of thoughts and learn as much as you can before leaving the protection of in loco parentis. It's a tough world out there, become more humble or someone is going to bounce you pretty hard with that kind of attitude.
You don't like his way of directing? What if you were getting paid? Your job is to play the part! Apply the same logic to working with any director. When you are in charge, you can decide but until then...
HRL
BTW I have a whole lot of years of HS director experience and more as a college professor. I've been a working, paid musician since just a bit older than you. You are off on a tangent here. Better come back pretty quickly.
Post Edited (2006-10-31 02:39)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-10-30 18:30
Oh well. First of all, it's no good telling everyone and their cousin how good you are or how good your friend is too. I don't boast with my programming skills either. Just get the job done.
You say the only time he was nice was when you were praticing for an audition - was that the only time he actually saw you working?
Sometimes things just don't work between two people. The more mature ones deal with the situation and try to make the best of the time they're forced to spend with each other. The other ones complain and blame it on someone else. Think about it. No need to make an affair out of it, though, ain't the last time such a thing will happen to you. Just get over it. Indians have no concept of pain, and all that.
--
Ben
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-10-31 06:57
When it comes right down to it, music is not and never will be a democracy in large ensembles. If you are lucky you might find something resembling a representative government, but the director is installed as a dictator, and it's up to him (or her) to yield that power. Some handle it well, some don't, and even the best directors will have personality clashes with some of the members. When you're in a bad situation it helps to think of your love for music, cuz you're not going to be able to do anything else.
-Randy
P.S. HRL, it's been more than four decades and my parentis are still pretty loco....
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-10-31 08:31
I basically think a director should NEVER do something like this. There is ALWAYS a better way. I can't think of any situation where humiliating someone is justified, especially not to get something much less important out of it, like having the orcestra play better (or something similar). This is especially important when working with kids, and maybe many of those who do shouldn't. In a professional orcherstra they should hire someone who can play everything good in the first place (or else he could get fired), so it is completely different.
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Author: chicagoclar
Date: 2006-10-31 13:58
When it comes to playing your part just before a concert, it shouldn't be humiliating. If you have prepared, you will know the part and even if nerves get to you, you should be able to play it given a couple of chances. Also, orchestra is a venue where you typically play on a part alone, so having to play by yourself shouldn't be a surprise.
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-11-01 06:45
Unfortunately there is a vast chasm between what should be and what is. More unfortunately it is very difficult for one person to do anything about the above situations unless he or she is prepared to walk away from the group. I've never understood why the need to humiliate is so rampant among conductors but I just don't see what can be done about it.
-Randy
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-11-01 11:05
"When you're in a bad situation it helps to think of your love for music, cuz you're not going to be able to do anything else."
There's always an alternative....
Bob Draznik
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Author: chipper
Date: 2006-11-01 13:09
Yeah, I agree with BobD: Develop a thicker skin. None of us is perfect and we can all improve from any situation, even those causing us to feel uncomfortable. My director has stopped the practice, singled out one musician (me included) and done something like this " OK, now from bar 180, play the first note, OK, now play the second note, OK, now play the third note ........etc, OK, GOT IT? Lets move on" But you can be certian that when bar 180 comes around next time it will be played correctly. And although for some of you this is your livelyhood, for the vast majority of us this activity is icing on the cake of life. Relax and enjoy.
C
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Author: Gretchen
Date: 2006-11-01 18:31
Stole16,
2 sides of the coin: 1, the conductor shouldn't be switching stuff around 1 rehearsal before the dress rehearsal unless it's absolutely necessary. This put you unexpectedly on the spot and probably freaked you out a little bit. 2, you should have known the part a little better. If it sounded fine with the two of you playing it, did the other player know his/her part better than you and was perhaps, covering for you?
I think the director probably could have handled the situation differently, but in any case, there are two parties- you and the director. He was a bit out of line (or old school) and you were a bit unprepared. It was a tough situation. Hopefully you saw the good in it, in learning how to prepare better, and learning the responsabilities of being the head of the section. Don't take it personally.
Was the concert ok? Or did he switch it back to being 2 people again? just curious.
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Author: stole16
Date: 2006-11-01 20:46
Yeah, the concert ended up being fine, I practiced the passage and had it down in about fifteen minutes. I think what had been happening was that I was likely following the other person and not realizing it. It was a learning experience, but I feel like if the director had taken the time to get to know me throughout the year he would have know by that point that there were other ways to make me learn the part.
Oh well, it's over and done with now.
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