 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: anneh
Date: 2006-10-01 18:06
Hi Everyone--
I have recently begun a renaissance of my clarinet playing--I'm a middle school band director, clarinet major in college, who took up the bari sax to play in big bands long ago. It's been a long time since I played the clarinet seriously--maybe 25 years.
I presently find myself principal chair clarinet in a very good community wind ensemble, and have found that I really love the clarinet again. I currently play a circa 1980 R13, some custom work done by Charles Bay back in the day. Last summer I started playing on a Clark Fobes SF model mouthpiece, VD Optimum ligature, VD or Olivieri 3 or 3/12 reeds. I had played on, during my "heyday", a Woodwind Robert Marcellus w/VD or Olivieri size 5.
With more expendable $$ than good sense, I am going to buy a new clarinet this year. Not that I dislike my present set up--mostly it's to reward myself for rededicating myself to clarinet.
I will be visiting Paris in December, and would like to visit the Buffet, LeBlanc and Selmer factories to try out instruments. I live in the LA area, and could visit RDG to try horns, but since I'm going to be in the "homeland", I thought it would be a marvelous experience.
I DO NOT want to start a thread war regarding the goods and bads of these brands, but I've been out of the loop so long I want to hear the current gossip regarding professional instruments. I am tired of the whole PC v. Mac, Ford v. Chevy, etc. type debates that we all tend to get in to regarding our equipment. I am VERY open minded to anything.
Money is not particularly an object, but I don't think I'm a candidate for a real boutique one of a kind hand made instrument.
My specific questions are:
1. Exactly what is the best way to purchase an instrument in France (i.e., cheapest!---pay here or there?
2. Your thoughts on the various brands.
3. Your experiences visiting the factories in France
Thank you in advance for your thoughtful replies.
Anne
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-10-01 18:17
anneh wrote:
> I DO NOT want to start a thread war regarding the goods and
> bads of these brands, but I've been out of the loop so long I
> want to hear the current gossip regarding professional
> instruments.
You want gossip but not start a thread war?
I only want peace on earth ...
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-10-01 18:23
If money were no object I wouldn't be heading over to France. I'd be heading to Toronto to visit with Stephen Fox, tell him exactly what I was looking for, order a clarinet, and then schedule a week in Toronto when he completed the clarinet.
It would end up being my custom clarinet, set up and tuned exactly the way I want it to be.
Yes, Stephen is a friend of mine & a sponsor, but I've not bought anything from him. Yet.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-10-01 18:29
1. There are several. You can just go to a shop and they might have a lot in stock. Or you can schedule an appointment in the factory and then you will most likely have a lot more to try. You probably have to tell them exactly what models you want to try for them to have them in stoc.
With the new Buffet prices I heard about in the USA, I think they might cheaper in France. I don't know about Selmer and Leblanc. But anyway you can probably get the VAT refunded at the airport when you fly back, so notice to compare the price with and without the VAT.
December is VERY close so I would contact the companies imediately if you want to schedule an appointment. It is great to visit the factory even if you don't buy a clarinet.
2. I've tried really a lot of different models and many clarinets from all three brands. I like the sound of all of them and think they are very good. It is more of an individual choice of what you like. For example, I can't stand the Selmer keywork, but I know someone who prefers Selmer keywork over any other brand.
Notice that you will have to buy the clarinet from a shop even if you choose it at the factory. I suggest to look around the shops in Paris (there are many!) and ask about prices.
Good luck.
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Author: anneh
Date: 2006-10-01 19:08
Hi Mark--
I'll be in Paris for vacation--I don't think I can convince my family to replace Par-ee with Toronto!
Mostly I want to try out clarinets in France at the factories for the experience--as I said, since I live in the LA area, there are plenty of places to try instruments. I also know that what ever I buy it'll probably need some kind of tweaking.
I am also fully prepared to go to France, tryout instruments, and come home without one unless something really knocks me to the floor.
Re the "gossip"--I am fully able to defend my equipment without knocking anything else down--I'm hoping others can do the same!
Thanks for your input, though!
Anne
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Author: anneh
Date: 2006-10-01 23:56
Well...I hadn't thought about that--we are actually going to be in London for a while on the same trip.
Any thoughts, out there, on the Peter Eaton clarinet?
Anne
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-10-02 02:08
I can recommend Quintette Musique store in Paris. The owner, Richard Scotto, is a former Buffet executive. At least when I was there, he had a large stock of instruments, and his prices were very reasonable.
Howarth's in London also has a very wide range of instruments to try, and a very sympathetic staff. I don't think that their prices are as competitive, though!
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Author: jack
Date: 2006-10-02 02:41
Anne,
Looks like your quest will be a fun experience! Throw in the travel and it sounds terrific.
All the brands mentioned are obviously the state of the art. But you also want to be aware of the subtle but important differences of various models within each individual brand. For instance the Selmer Recital has a certain character that sets it upart from the mainstream. Lots of luck! Not mentioned yet, but Yamaha has also recently gotten rave mentions on this board. Since you may not have seen it, I will mention the new Leblanc-Backun line that is worth your attention. From my experience you can find great horns and clinkers from any of the makers. The biggest problem I have found in checking out horns is that most of the time they need some adjustment to reach their potential, so it is hard to know what you are getting. I doubt if one in ten bass clarinets, for instance, is ready to play out of the box.
Anyway, since this is somewhat of a gift to yourself, you may want to consider Rossi. Due to the low production numbers, about 50 or so a year, you will have to search them out, but it's worth it. The sense of sound and the tactile feel are wonderful. And they are crafted so beautifully, they are a joy just to look at. I would go for the American bore model as I enjoy the denser sound. I played mine recently at the First Congregational Church in Los Angeles. It is famous for its organs, the largest west of the Mississippi.
It is a huge hall, definitely medieval. They told me that I was the first person to play any instrument there, other than the organ. Anyway, it was the first time anyone asked me what sort of clarinet I played. They said it must have been a great clarinet to get that sort of a sound. But I digress. The Rossi A of the pair is simply the best clarinet that I, at least have found.
I also own Buffet, Leblanc and Selmer and like them all. Whatever clarinet you get, you ought to consider having a master craftsman go over it at the outset, it will be worth it.
Good luck with your quest.
Jack
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2006-10-02 03:40
And now for something completely different. At the risk of being unresponsive to your question and perhaps suggesting an idea you have already rejected, if you are truly happy with your current setup and looking for a reward (i.e., new toy), how about considering a different member of the clarinet family. For general use, or if you want to branch out into other groups or play jazz or shows, perhaps a bass clarinet. Or, if your wind ensemble doesn't have an Eb player, an Eb clarinet for those occasional pieces where it is really important. Or, if you might want to join an orchestra down the road, an A clarinet. Just an idea, in case you might not have already thought about it. You should be able to try these out at the factory as well.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: anneh
Date: 2006-10-02 05:02
Thanks for the suggestions--I spent rather a long time as a doubler, so I already own a bass, an alto, and an A--I don't want an Eb because then I will have to admit I have one and someone will make me play it...
Anne
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2006-10-02 06:09
I second Larryh's recommendation of Richard Scotto and Quintette Musique. Richard's a real pro and is connected to all the right people. He's honest, straightforward and will help you get what you're looking for.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-10-02 06:25
"If money were no object I wouldn't be heading over to France. I'd be heading to Toronto to visit with Stephen Fox, tell him exactly what I was looking for, order a clarinet, and then schedule a week in Toronto when he completed the clarinet."
I prefer to play a clarinet and then buy it, and not the other way around. Sound and keywork will not necessarily be better than a Buffet, Selmer, Eaton, etc. for a specific person. It is very hard to describe with words what exactly you want the clarinet to sound like, and almost impossible to make the keywork fit to you exactly (if possible at all). Intonation might be better, but it is possible to improve intonation of a clarinet. Also, if he tries a lot it is possible to just find one with very good intonation (especially to fit the player & mouthpiece).
If you get a custom made clarinet and it is not not 100% exactly as you hoped, it is a huge disappointment. Some people might actually be psychologically mislead to believe the clarinet is everything they hoped for, only to be disappointed after a while.
In my opinion finding a clarinet you want, after you checked intonation, keywork, sound, etc. is about just feeling it is the clarinet for you. Almost like a relationship between people. Would you want someone to custom build your friends? I wouldn't.
"Well...I hadn't thought about that--we are actually going to be in London for a while on the same trip.
Any thoughts, out there, on the Peter Eaton clarinet?"
I play a Peter Eaton clarinet. From the first note I liked its sound better than any clarinet I've ever played. The keywork was a little strange at first, but now that I'm used to it it's more comfortable to me than any clarinet I've played. One great thing if you buy it in England (I didn't) is you are buying it from the person who designed and built your clarinet. Google for his website, and if you decide to go there, make sure to ask about payment options. If I'm not mistaken he told me credit card is not possible for purchasing a clarinet, but I'm not sure because that was a long time ago anyway.
An Eaton, or Rossi like someone suggested above (or any clarinet from a small company) will not necessarily be better for everyone than a Buffet, Leblanc or other big company.
"I can recommend Quintette Musique store in Paris."
Good shop which I also recommend, but there are many others. If you choose the instrument at the factory I don't think it really matters what shop you choose, to I would go mainly by price (unless it is a really annoying shop like one I saw there but don't remember the name). I bought one clarinet from a shop called Le Menetrier (or something like that), and they were very nice and did all they could to help. It is on Rue de Rome (where most music shops are). Quintette Musique is also good, and also the shop of Cyrille Mercadier is very good (and I think maybe only sell clarinets).
It is interesting, including this thread, I already know four Americans who recommended Quintette Musique. Maybe some French clarinetists on this forum can have more information on the shops in Paris and more exprience with more shops?
Actually, Anneh, I have (if I can find it!) an email that Buffet sent me with all their dealers in Paris with their addresses and phone numbers. Email me to clarnibass@yahoo.com if you want me to send it to you.
By the way, if you are on Rue de Rome you have to go to one (or more!) of the many sheet music shops. I've never see anything like it!
"Howarth's in London also has a very wide range of instruments to try, and a very sympathetic staff. I don't think that their prices are as competitive, though!"
The prices in France are most likely less expensive than in England, but have you checked the prices of Howarth recently? I'm on their website right now, and their prices, especially for Buffet, are considerably less expensive than in the USA (for example WWBW). Americans can also have the VAT refunded no?
Post Edited (2006-10-02 06:57)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-10-02 10:59
clarnibass wrote:
> I prefer to play a clarinet and then buy it, and not the other
> way around.
So, how many clarinets have you custom ordered? The German clarinets are generally ordered that way, and it hasn't seemed to be a real problem. Having a custom maker working with you is preferable in my book, especially one where you have listened to and tried a couple of his/her instruments so you know you're on the same wavelength.
> Sound and keywork will not necessarily be better
> than a Buffet, Selmer, Eaton, etc. for a specific person.
Hmmmm ... how many times have you actually been able to design exactly how your keywork should be for you? Or explain to the designer the tonal tradeoffs you want?
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2006-10-02 12:08
I've visited the Leblanc factory last year, It was a great experience. Very nice people and very helpful to. There where lots of clarinets to try, but we had made a appointment… :o)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-10-03 06:06
"So, how many clarinets have you custom ordered?"
None. How many have you?
"The German clarinets are generally ordered that way, and it hasn't seemed to be a real problem."
I think most people who buy those German clarinets have a pretty good idea of how they sound and how their keywork is. Especially a German player is probably surounded by them. I think these clarinets have certain characteristics that are kept with any custom clarinet they make, since a person that wants one, most likely wants these characteristics exactly.
"Having a custom maker working with you is preferable in my book"
Please notice that I never said a custom made clarinet will not be better than an already made one you select, and I think I was clear in explaining why I prefer what I prefer, and gave valid reasons to at least consider before going in that route.
"especially one where you have listened to and tried a couple of his/her instruments so you know you're on the same wavelength"
That is different. If you find the clarinet you like the most from a maker that is willing to custom make you one similar, but with improvements just for you, then yes that is a good option. Though for this to be a good idea the clarinet you found needs to have problems not possible to fix only by customizing it. Doesn't sound like a great clarinet in the first place. Also, what if you try the maker's clarinets and actually prefer another brand better for a starting point? Etc.
So again, I'm not saying yours is a bad idea, but just that a person going with this needs to consider all the possibilities, especially that the end result might not be exactly what you wanted.
One question (which I'm asking out of curiousity and ignorance) - Why the majority (and a very big majority) of the professional players, who can no doubt afford these custom made clarinets, play regular already made clarinets?
Post Edited (2006-10-03 06:13)
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