 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: jamie talbot
Date: 2006-10-01 08:42
Last night I heard Michael Collins play the Mozart Quintet on a Basset Clarinet in a church in Claygate.He played it beautifully as you can imagine-a true
virtuoso.
It got me wondering about the basset clarinet.I play the clarinet proffessionaly but know next to nothing about the basset clarinet and thought that the
BB would be a good place to get some questions answered.
Who, other than Semer, make them?
Are they also pitched in Bb?
Can a boehm clarinet be adapted by the addition of a basset bottom joint?
What pieces other than than the Mozart concerto and quintet have been written for it and why are basset clarinets not heard more often?
Looking forward to reading your views
Jamie Talbot
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2006-10-01 08:53
Makers I can think of...
Stephen Fox, Selmer, Buffet, Howarths
Stephen Fox makes a basset in any key you like. A Bb basset is called for in some Mozart operas.
Any normal clarinet can be adapted to become a basset, and don't see why a full boehm can't be, again Stephen Fox is your man.
Other works: Birtwistle's 'Linoi', Sussmayr's Concerto Movement in D, and a work I can't remember the name of by British composer Richard Baker.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: joannew
Date: 2006-10-01 08:57
You can buy a lower basset joint for your existing A clarinet from Howarth in London. Stephen Fox in Toronto will built a basset joint or extention, with any key configuration you desire. Buffet and Leblanc also make a basset clarinet in A, but the configuration of the extra keys differs between makers.
Not much else has been written for basset clarinet, unfortunately, which is why we don't hear them more often.
http://www.howarth.uk.com/pic.aspx?pic=./wo/HowarthBasset.jpg&pid=43020
http://www.sfoxclarinets.com/Basset.html
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2006-10-01 11:24
I've got 2 basset clarinets. One in A by Buffet, and one in B-flat. The B-flat is a Buffet instrument adapted by Steven Fox.
To convert a normal Boehm clarinet into a basset clarinet, it is necessary to rebuild the lower joint from about the 1st RH finger hole. The reason for this is that the bore of Boehm clarinets start to widen from around that area. This is impractical for the low register notes on a basset clarinet. German system clarinets stay more cylindrical, so it is actually possible to build an extension which fits onto the lower RH joint of the clarinet. Unfortunately this is not possible for Boehm instruments, so an entire new RH joint has to be built.
Buffet do not make a RH basset extension, because their design for their basset clarinet also has a differently constructed LH joint than a normal Buffet clarinet. I'm not really sure how necessary this is, considering how well my Steven Fox adaption works. In fact, I find the Fox version in some ways superior to the Buffet basset.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-01 11:53
The Leblanc basset clarinets I've seen have what appears to be a one-piece body.
I've seen one of Brian Ackerman's basset clarinet conversions done to a Selmer Series 9 - the bore was opened up to just above the F#/C# tonehole and the extension (with a long tenon going into the existing bottom joint) was glued in place to continue the parallel bore, and the low C issued through a vent hole rather than the bell - so it could even go to low B!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: larryb
Date: 2006-10-01 13:05
Guy Chadash in New York City also makes a basset lower joint in A:
http://www.chadashclarinet.com/basset.htm
Question I have is: if you buy a basset clarinet in order to play a couple of Mozart pieces as we think they were meant to be played, can you also use the same clarinet to play everything else written for "A" clarinet? In other words, would there be any harm in playing the Brahms quintet with a basset clarinet, even though you don't need those basset notes? Does the basset extension improve the tone quality of the normal clarinet range? Once you've aquired a basset clarinet, do you need to keep your old regular clarinet?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-01 13:11
Unless you find the weight a strain I can't see any reason not to use a basset for anything you want to. But it's probably best to get a basset lower joint, at least you can interchange at will.
Comparing a regular Selmer 10S A clarinet with the 10S basset clarinet the basset clarinet certainly had more resonance and fullness of tone, and in the upper register as well - from G up to C it played with a remarkable tone for a small bore clarinet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-10-01 14:06
"can you also use the same clarinet to play everything else written for "A" clarinet"
I have no personal experience of this, but it was discussed some while ago on this board and the consensus appeared to be that bassets are quite severely compromised, and you wouldn't want to use one unless it was actually necessary.
Liquorice's post perhaps gives us a clue why this might be; a basset isn't just longer, the whole lower half of the instrument is different, at least for Boehm instruments.
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-10-01 14:41
I've played the Selmer and the Leblanc entries in this sweepstakes, and I still have to say that I don't see the point in getting all excited about them. The Leblanc played well enough over its range, the Selmer less so, but they worked well enough to stand up alongside of their other instruments.
The real question is "Is it worth the freight?" As a technical exercise, these instruments work. And, true, they can reproduce those missing lower tones that were in the original draft of the Mozart piece. For authenticity, there's certainly no substitute for one of these, plain and simple.
However, the Mozart piece has been performed by the standard range instrument for what, 300 years or at this point. As for the rest, the repertoire can be numbered on the fingers of two hands. While that's certainly more than was written for the Heckelphone, it's not enough to warrant publishing a "Selections" book by any stretch of the imagination.
Given a limitless budget (or a deep pockets institutional horn collection), there's no reason not to get one of these instruments. Unfortunately, there's seldom such a sugar daddy willing to make the purchase. For the rest of us, it would be a horn that you would have to work at finding performance opportunities for. As we don't see that many such opportunities for regular clarinet playing, it makes a lot of sense to keep these "bassetized" horns as the curiosities that they are.
If not, then keep away from purchase opportunities for Ab sopranino clarinets; they'll suck you in for sure...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-10-01 14:46
Terry Stibal wrote:
> And, true, they can reproduce
> those missing lower tones that were in the original draft of
> the Mozart piece. For authenticity, there's certainly no
> substitute for one of these, plain and simple.
To be precise - there is NO "draft" of K622. There is the Winturther fragment, written for basset horn, which is almost the same as K622, but it is not K622.
We really don't know what "authentic" is in K622 - we only have educated guesses. There is no manuscript of the piece.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-10-01 15:46
Terry also wrote:
However, the Mozart piece has been performed by the standard range instrument for what, 300 years or at this point. As for the rest, the repertoire can be numbered on the fingers of two hands. While that's certainly more than was written for the Heckelphone, it's not enough to warrant publishing a "Selections" book by any stretch of the imagination.
Fact: 300 years ago was 1706, 50 years before Mozart was born. That's why there's a big fuss about his 250th birthday this year.
Fact: there is a list of heckelphone repertoire on http://www.contrabass.com/pages/heckel-rep.html, which contains more pieces than I have fingers. Admittedly, some may really be intended for bass oboe.
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-10-01 15:46
... so basset clarinetists make-up (with good intuition and intentions) the missing Mozart. I guess, you'd just keep going down those arpeggios that seem (maybe) to "bounce off of" the bottom reach of a conventional clarinet. Sometimes it works for me, sometimes it just seems awkward.
I rather the K622 performance get the sonorities of the ORCHESTRA right in th 2nd movement. (I I don't tear-up, the performance has been blown).
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2006-10-01 19:22
Yes playing the Mozart on Basset is worth the hassel. If you actually study the work and anaylise the score as we know it the clues are there to reconstruct the original basset clarinet part. The use of a low B is sometimes mentioned, and in my professional opinion is justified in the last movement at least. The work needs to be taken in context. It was written when Mozart was pre-occupied with opera, Magic Flute and Don Giovanni and lets not forget Tito with the famous Parto-Parto. With the basset notes the work really does become a small opera in its self. The use of the two 'principle' voices to determine two different characters. If you are an amature or professional it is certainly well worth the effort to try and experience playing one of these instruments.
Chris P it sounds like Basset Clt you descibed in you post.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-10-01 22:35
300 years - 250 years...well within the historical margin of error. When everyone starts pronouncing the Boy Wonder's name correctly, I'll start worrying about precise dates...
I agree that it is certainly "...worth the effort to try and experience playing one of these instruments." What I don't agree with is the thought that most players (including professionals of the top drawer) should aspire to purchase of one. A fine point, but a point to be made.
Most in music are in a marginal occupation in the first place, having to (in effect) hold down two or more jobs (teaching, private lessons, performance) to make a decent wage. Shelling out a few grand may be feasible for some (it's not too painful for me, for sure), but usually you make such purchase for something that you need to have, not something that's nice to have.
The basset horn is an excellent example. There's a body of work for that instrument that considerably exceeds that available for the basset clarinet. However, over the past thirty odd years since I've had the pleasure of playing basset horn for the first time, I've met very few folks (with them mostly being basset horn enthusiasts) who own one of their own.
I often say that I "aspire" to owning a complete set of saxophones, from sopranino all the way down to bass. However, the preconditions are that I have money for them in excess of the five million in the bank needed to guarantee a comfortable living without working. Until that happens, the "aspire" is just that...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2006-10-01 23:13
Terry, I made no mention of anyone having to buy one. I was lucky with mine and got it at a reasonable price (below £1000). I was merely saying that if you had the chance to play one take it. That means perhaps knowing someone who might own one that may let you try it for example. For me it was an investment, I have paid for it through the many Mozart Concertos and quintets that I have done since buying the instrument in 2004.
And infact the repertoire for basset horn is also not vast. Only one or two concertos exsist and the Trios. More research is needed into the repertoire for the basset clarinet in the late 18th C early 19th. Apparently Stadler himself wrote a concerto which is lost.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2006-10-01 23:20
I have many recordings of K622 with and without Basset notes.
Personally I like the tonal quality of regular clarinet.
Authenticity aside,I don't know if it's any better with Basset notes.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-10-02 02:02
Koo Young Chung states "Authenticity aside,I don't know if it's any better with Basset notes. Personally I like the tonal quality of regular clarinet."
I totally disagree! I think Peter Cigleris is spot on when he cites the operatic nature of the the concerto. Once one has experienced the "fulfillment" of the descending phrases in the Concerto I don't think he can ever be totally satisfied with hearing it any other way, no matter how inspired the performance!
Koo, have you heard the same player play the concerto with standard A clarinet and with basset horn. If not, I don't know how you can compare the tonal quality.
If I were 20 years younger I'd go out and buy a basset clarinet myself!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
