 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2006-09-29 13:12
Hi folks,
I have been wondering about the throat Bb. I have seen some complecated mechanisms to fix the fuzz, but is there any other way to fix it? Reeds or ligatures that help the resonance?? I have tried cleaning the tube, that helps a bit, but not much.
Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks,
Sky
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-09-29 13:19
Search the archives for resonance fingering suggestions...GBK
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2006-09-29 16:08
I read lots of complaints about throat A and A# being airy, breathy, not resonant. They can be made to resonate better by the addition of right and/or left hand fingers. Experiment with combinations.
But remember that sometimes you WANT that breathiness. Instead of viewing it as a shortcoming, think of it as another available tone color.
Best,
b/
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-09-29 16:36
Be sure the register tube is clean
Check pad heights of A and G#
Tweak the barrel (turn on its axis) or insert tuning ring if it is out a lot.
Try another person's barrel to see if it changes anything.
Play with new fingerings (A key plus a RH trill key, etc)
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: kev182
Date: 2006-09-29 20:09
airy notes have a lot to do with your reed and embouchure not just clarinet and physical equipment. For example my friend was getting a very airy throat Bb and when i played his clarinet without changing anything i could get a very clear tone without using any resonance fingerings. Ofcourse resonance fingerings will definetly help.
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Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2006-09-29 21:40
I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned air when dealing with dodgy throat notes.
'Blowing through' the notes is vital. You need to make the most of the little air column that is vibrating. Expecting the note to be duff will not help at all. The recent discussion on hot and cold air will turn up much useful advice applicable to this subject.
For Bb specifically, I recommend using the alternative fingering with the 3rd side key as much as possible.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2006-09-30 01:09
Anybody using the Galper Register Vent and Key? They really aren't that much money, considering the costs of other items of improvement. I suspect they play havoc with a case though. If you're using one, are there case (clearance) issues?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-09-30 13:28
Hi Fred et al - This is a much-discussed subject and much good info is in our Search-Archives re: Ave Galper's solution to a poor [?Buffet?] Bb and other register tube "configurations" . In addition there are several keying solutions, some of which are now common on our larger cls. Incidentally, I have been lurking-reading here and wish to ask those ICA member-subscribers to "The Clarinet" who may have read Dr. Debbi Reeves' latest "Historically Speaking" re: a "special" [IMHO] Leblanc cl, discussing the "jump keying" on a Dr. Shackelton clarinet. Also shown is some complex register/Bb keying structure, which I believe was patented by Leon Leblanc in the 1960's. I plan to study this unusual addition vs the patents, since I believe this is the first time I've seen it on a soprano Leb model. Will be interested in any comments, TKS, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2006-09-30 16:36
Don-
There is also a system or two that is used on German clarindts. I have played it and repaired it myself. It adds an extra hole for Bb on the left side. Although it does the job it adds a lot of mass to the top of the clarinet and ruins the balance(physical) of the inst.
If you normally hold the clarinet with only your rt. thumb and top teeth everything is ok. The mouthpiece pushes up against your teeth.
With this extra key, the mouthpiece has almost no upward pressure. It could be compensated with a heavier bell, but that's more for the thumb pain.
Hmmm...
-Sky
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2006-10-01 00:25
Don Berger wrote:
> Also shown is some complex register/Bb
> keying structure, which I believe was patented by Leon Leblanc
> in the 1960's. I plan to study this unusual addition vs the
> patents, since I believe this is the first time I've seen it on
> a soprano Leb model. Will be interested in any comments, TKS,
> Don
>
Hi Don,
Are you referring to Leblanc's patent 1,926,489 dated 9/12/1933 (filed 6/1/1932)? This is the patent referred to in the articles in The Clarinet over the past two issues.
Superficially, Leblanc's design looks extremely similar to the later Stubbins design (Stubbins-Kaspar mechanism) for an extra hole and key for throat Bb (which was licensed to Leblanc after Stubbins did his original production runs under his own brand name). In actuality, the Leblanc design works exactly the opposite of the Stubbins mechanism. I believe that it is often confused with the Stubbins design because the keywork looks very similar when the instrument is in the case (both were produced by Leblanc and look very similar until you start to work the mechanisms), and I also believe that the confusion appears in some earlier posts on this Bulletin Board (including several by me).
I have verified that Leblanc's design was also used on the original Selmer (Paris) Omega from the 1940s and 1950s which was based on the Selmer CT. The original Omega has an ornately hand-engraved lower joint and barrel, and in most cases includes the Leblanc patented mechanism for throat Bb. [Ken Shaw has previously posted this information on this board, and side by side comparisons of the Leblanc instruments and the Selmer Omega make it very clear that Mr. Shaw's information is completely accurate.]
We (that is, Donald Hinson and Walter Grabner using horns I purchased) have restored three of the Leblanc instruments with Leblanc's mechanism and one of the original Selmer Omegas in the past 18 months. Compared to other Leblancs (and Selmer CTs) of the same era, they might offer some slight increase in the qualityof the sound of the Bb although probably not a lot (based on my amateur impression as well as that of a few very experienced players who have tried the instruments).
Having looked at a lot of the older instruments produced 40-60 years ago to deal with throat Bb issues, I would echo GBK's recommendation to learn resonance fingerings and add my own alternative to "get a Mazzeo system" clarinet.
George
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-10-01 20:44
Hi George et al - Many TKS for your info-input, it serves to clear up several questions I've had re: the Pinch Bb "growth industry". Along the way, does anyone know the approx. mfg. date of the Shackleton cl pictured in D R's Historically Speaking in "The Cl" Sept. 2006. That, with one or several of the following US patents I have/know-of, might more clearly tie the two together, as I've been [feebly !] attempting to do. Leblancs, 1,926,489 [1933, expiring 1950], 2,627,776 [1953, {alto and bass cls}], : 2,832,250 [1958 {my choice for the pic !}], 3,079,828 [1963 {sim to McIntyre?] : Stubbins 2,508,550 [1950] : Selmers 2,090,011 [1937{perhaps}] and {DeFord}] 2,775,915 [1957, filed 1953,[Omega?}] . There are prob. more "hidden in the files", but I need to study these a bit. Quite a checkered , but enjoyable search. Regards, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: sherman
Date: 2006-10-01 21:50
Hello George et al.
The very first consideration should be the awareness that literally hundreds of clarinetists at many levels are rather bothered, (read frightened) by the throat Bb, mainly because it is simply a bad note on many makes of clarinet, (read most). So, what they do is to back off or back away from the note, making it immediately more fuzzy and sharper, especially if you are playing a lyrical melody. If you will just play through the note with your best quality and without making it softer, you will experience improvement immediately. It is the "wolf" note of the clarinet, and, most importantly it is an embouchure problem and a technical problem as well. Play Bb to C and die, unless you are very certain that you lead with the first finger of the left hand landing squarely on the first ring, almost before the rest of your fingers go down. Most players, especially younger players always panic and forget this, while it is very simple to learn to improve this difficult motion. Also the embouchure usually almost always follows suit, and moves; some players move their shoulders as well. Practice in front of a mirror and do not allow your throat to move at all when in Bb country. Further improvement will occur. (shoulder, eyebrows also must not move)
Throughout clarinet history there have been many that have attempted to improve the Bb, proving that is is a problem.
But is it , really?
Adding fingers adds to your misery, for while you think you are improving resonance you are suffering with intonation and you cannot play with these additional so-called resonance fingerings with any kind of real velocity.
This is not a recommendation for any kind of key system, simply a suggestion that technic be cleaned up first and foremost prior to perhaps relegating the poor Bb to the lair of the wolf. There is of course, another fingering for Bb which is exactly where it is supposed to be, and we are all capable of using it much more than we do. This is the third trill key with the A apatule. Such a lovely note on the clarinet.
Or , as George Huba says, and George is one of the great clarinet-lovers of us all, get a Mazzeo clarinet.
stay well, Sherman Friedland
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-10-01 22:16
I tend to use the trill key/A key fingering on both soprano and bass clarinet whenever the note duration will permit. Just force yourself to use it and you will find that the facility will come in time.
Working through some etudes centering around the tone (only using the alternative fingering instead of register/A key method) will help. Sure, it's going back to basics, but that's the way to master a fundamental (or in this case, a modified fundamental).
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2006-10-01 22:52
Hi Sherman,
Glad you weighed in on this topic as you have undoubtedly spent more time playing horns with alternate throat Bb fingerings-keys (that is, the Mazzeo design) than anyone in history.
My other recommendation is that anyone who is unwilling to take your advice -- learn to play the "wolf" note on a conventional Boehm system clarinet, maybe with the side key as often as possible, without handicapping oneself with undue anxiety -- probably should be forced to play only a McIntyre clarinet until they come to their senses (which I would estimate to be about 11 minutes on a well-restored and perfectly regulated McIntyre and about 90 seconds on one not in perfect adjustment).
George
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