 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-09-18 11:29
Hi
Maybe a silly question, but where do you go when you want to have something nickel or silver plated? I'm thinking jewellery shops probably?
Thanks.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-18 12:33
Howarth use a plating firm in France called either Demayere or Demeyere (I'm not sure of the spelling) - they do the plating and make key castings for several large woodwind manufacturers (eg. Buffet) as well, and they do a fantastic job - a prime example of their plating is on a Buffet Prestige clarinet.
You could inquire in a jewellers to see if they use a company nearer you, though do specify a minimum of 25 microns of silver, and around 5 to 10 microns of nickel.
But do all the preparation yourself before sending anything off to the platers, and always expect to fit the keys afterwards.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-09-18 14:33
Both Phil Muncy's shop and the one with Woodwind Brasswind will replate all you want (well they send off to a metal working shop that is pretty much used by EVERYONE in the States). They also do extremely competent overhauls, so they can do all the work, just be prepared for $$$$$.
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-09-18 14:58
Maybe you missed it that I'm not in the USA. I'm not going to send anything to the USA. What I'm plating is not clarinet keys, although it is some clarinet part, it is much smaller.
Since I will do the plating in my country, I'm trying to know what type of shops will do plating (as opposed to specific shops), and if I am right that jewellery shops are the place to look for. Maybe this is not the place to ask this, because it sounds like in other counties you actually go to music/repair shops for plating, but none of these here do plating.
thanks.
Post Edited (2006-09-18 15:13)
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-09-18 15:16
There should be speciality metal plating shops in Isreal. The telphone directory, if you have the equilavent of the US Yellow Pages, is a good place to start. Shops that chrome plate items like hot rot parts may also do silver plating. You might also contact jewelery shops, jewelery manufacturing plants, etc. for recommendations of platers for smaller parts. Preparation of the part is the key to a good plating job. It may also have to be plated with another metal just down the electromotive scale first in order for a good silver plating to adhere properly.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-09-18 15:32
You can do your own silverplating (very thin, but it works) with a liquid solution available by mail order from Caswell, Inc.
http://www.caswellplating.com/
It's not real cheap, but works pretty well if you just need to touch up some small areas. No devices needed, just rub on and rinse off.
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Author: D
Date: 2006-09-18 17:54
that is what I was about to suggest too! A couple of good physics textbooks with good diagrams, a battery and some rubber shoes. You should be all set.......
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-18 18:43
D,
I mentioned something similar on the SOTW boards:
"I have mucked around with electroplating before, but you will need to get the correct electrolyte (it's toxic, so you might have to get it through a company that deals with platers) - I used a transformer with voltage control to regulate the current, a piece of solid silver wired to the positive terminal and the key to be plated wired to the negative and had success with this."
I can't remember what the electrolyte solution was called, but it was yellow.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-09-19 03:13
I don't remember the exact process, but you can deposit silver on any surface, though the silver will be very thin and delicate, using a chemical process...no batteries. The process used to be used on telescope mirrors (which have to be first-surface mirrors) before aluminizing came along. As I remember, the surface actually had to be stripped and re-silvered periodically as the silver would tarnish and reduce the reflectivity of the mirror. Perhaps some of the more chemical-minded folks in the board could illuminate this further.
-Randy
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-09-19 05:42
Thanks everyone.
The question is, if I go to a jewellery shop and they say they can plate it, is there a problem with just letting them do it? Can it be different at all than plating for clarinet?
Koo Young Chung - I have changable threaded register tubes for my bass clarinet. I planned on leaving them unplated brass, but I start to see corosion already, after just a few months! I want to nickel or silver plate them to prevent it.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-09-19 10:47
OK I looked at Caswell website and looks very interesting, thanks for the link David Spiegelthal. I'm considering this option, just because I like to do it myself. It is actually not very erxpensive comparing.
Just so I can have a rough comparison, does anyone know how much it costs (or an estimate of price) to silver plate an alto saxophone neck?
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2006-09-20 00:44
clarnibass:
You can plate it if you want but brass is very corrosion resistant.
Even though it changes color when exposed to air/water it will have a protective coat on the surface so that it won't get rusted like iron based metal.(I have many tools made of brass their color will darken but will stay that way,it won't get much worse.)
You can clean and apply vaseline once in a while or after cleaning you can apply light shellac then it will stay that way.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-09-20 06:48
Koo Young Chung, does the colour change make it green? A little of the brass tube is becoming green. I can even see it on the pad - there is a small dark circle on the pad, then around it a white (pad colour) circle, and outside of that a green circle. I'll try to get a picture.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-09-20 07:02
Clarnibass,
as brass consists of copper and zinc the tarnish is not uncommon to have a greenish-brownish tint.
The tint depends on the copper-zinc ratio, the overall quality and what substances and electro-chemical processes the surface has been exposed to - for the latter see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dezincification
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-20 15:32
You will get a green deposit on the pad as the pad material reacts with the copper in the brass (or reacts with the stuff the skin is cured with) - you see this on saxes, a dark green deposit around the edge of the pad and the pad cup, and also on toneholes.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-09-21 22:19
clarnibass,
If you buy the bottle of non-electrolytic (chemical-only) plating solution from Caswell, you will have enough to plate quite a few alto sax necks!
Be advised, it is a somewhat hazardous chemical (the better of their two versions, the 'commercial' one, contains cyanide) so you may have some issues getting it shipped to your country (or maybe not!).
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-09-22 08:30
Thanks David Spiegelthal. I read a lot on Caswell's website, and I'm most likely going with the nickel kit, and not silver. If I want to silver or gold plate, then they explained I should nickel plate first. So to save money (i.e. buy only one kit) I decided to go with nickel plating. If I also decide to go with the silver plating chemical, I'll get the one without cyanide. Accodring to them they the same only the one without cyanide is slower, which I don't mind at all.
By the way, I don't plan on plating an alto saxophone neck at all. I just asked because that's the only plating job I know of someone doing in my area, so I just wanted to compare prices. Actually what I want to plate is MUCH smaller than an alto sax neck.
About prepairing the the part for plating, would using brasso and cotton swab do the job? For degreasing I thought of what I used on clarinet keys before, which is koastic soda. Good idea?
Thanks!
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