 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-09-18 11:01
Dear Board,
Rather than just rave about the cool new mouthpiece I got, I thought it might be best to tell the results of three players sitting down for a couple of hours with a bunch of mouthpieces from both Greg Smith and Richard Hawkins.
It quickly became apparent that there were some general tendencies to both. The Hawkins mouthpieces tended to have more resistance - let me explain. The two others who enjoyed the Hawkins were playing slow, ascending scales in sixths. If the top note "popped out" too much, the label was thrown out that the mouthpiece was not "resistant enough." I must note that there was at least one Hawkins that was like this.
On resistance, the Greg Smith mouthpieces mostly tended to be much more free blowing (dare I say that this is a godsend for me). MY prevailing approach is to have a mouthpiece that will respond with as much immediacy as possible and then let me decide what I want to do with it.
The other tendency of of the Hawkins was that the pitch was high. Again, this was more apparent in some than others but overall they play higher. Oddly, this was a tendecy bemoaned by the Hawkins players but was something about which they learn patience.
The Greg Smiths play on the lower side, very much in keeping with many other mouthpieces of the day such as the Vandoren 13 series, etc. Now here I prefer "room at the top" just in case, but....... I'm willing to learn to live with this since everything else that I love is in abundance.
So, if any of you are in the price points for a search and can glean any guidance from this....have at it.
I would hasten to add, having spent a great deal more time with the Greg Smith's, that the consistancy and precision of these mouthpieces is truly inspiring. And yes, one of them is my cool new mouthpiece.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: ajhogan
Date: 2006-09-18 22:45
What Greg Smith mouthpiece are you using, and what set up goes along with it?
Austin
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2006-09-18 23:06
Yeah I love my G Smith mouthpiece, I've had it for about three years now, and it's worked wonders on my pair of Leblanc Concertos and now on an R13 Bb. Combined with a good Chadash barrel, the R13's intonation is every bit as good as my Leblancs.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-09-18 23:09
Dear Austin,
The Greg Smith I chose is a Chicago style Kaspar K183 in Cocobolo wood. Currently I am playing with #4 Rue Lepic on a Leblanc Concerto (sometimes R13).
Some history may be in order. I had used some Hites in the past, but most recently used a Genusa G** and a Vandoren 5RV Lyre, 13 Series profile 88.
All long lays, medium open.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-09-18 23:23
Hey Morrigan,
The Chaddash barrel is a total heartbreaker for me. The combo played to such an amazing degree as far as tone and pure volume - it nearly brought this cynical old veteran to tears. Unfortunately, the pitch of the upper chalameau (Bb, A, and G#) is very, VERY high and not worth the work to readjust to this.
Did you have any readjustment to the Chaddash? I hear there is a "tendency" (there goes that word again!!) for their tight reverse taper to cause this problem.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2006-09-19 01:33
the pitch of the hawkins mouthpiece can be lowered by simply pulling the mouthpiece out slightly from the barrel. Heard that from hawkins himself
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-09-19 01:36
The "tendency" of most all Kaspars was to play slightly higher overall, especially in the upper throats. That's why many were played with 67 Moennig barrels. Even then, the throats had to be voiced down slightly and the barrel pulled a sliver. With the proper covered fingerings, the sound on those notes were unparalleled in tuning, resonance, and shape (a quality that Marcellus in particular exploited second to none).
The bore/chamber configuration that I use is modeled after an extraordinary, most in-tune original Kaspar that I've ever come across (given to me by my teacher). No doubt that with simply the standard 66mm Moening barrel and my own Kaspar style, there would be this slight tendency that one could exploit in much the same way over time.
As to a "mismatch" between my own Kaspar style mouthpieces and Chadash barrels, I have yet to come across this phenomenon. The overall difference in the volume of air within the Chadash vs. the Moening bore is almost negligible. The key difference is that a "cone" is placed in the Chadash bore as opposed to the Moennig straight, inverse taper.
With a slight tweaking of the top of the mouthpiece bore or a careful removing of material where the baffle meets the bore, the throats would most probably drop into any individual's "natural" range - that without altering the other playing characteristics of the mouthpiece.
Additionally, those that are used to the Chedeville style voiced mouthpiece (Paul) where one has subtly become used to voicing the throats upwards, the Kaspar style (even the most in-tune examples) require just the opposite. Coming from one direction (slightly lower) to another (slightly higher) ads up to a seemingly large amount at first blush.
Gregory Smith
http://www.gregory-smith.com
Post Edited (2006-09-19 02:00)
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2006-09-19 03:55
"The Greg Smiths play on the lower side, very much in keeping with many other mouthpieces of the day such as the Vandoren 13 series, etc. Now here I prefer "room at the top" just in case, but....... I'm willing to learn to live with this since everything else that I love is in abundance.
So, if any of you are in the price points for a search and can glean any guidance from this....have at it.
I would hasten to add, having spent a great deal more time with the Greg Smith's, that the consistancy and precision of these mouthpieces is truly inspiring. And yes, one of them is my cool new mouthpiece."
Well said. i own a greg 1+ and find that it is very even over the notes. it seems to literally iron all the issues out of the notes of the clarinet, except for the low e note, but then again, that's always been a problem note. hats off to greg on his mouthpieces.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2006-09-19 04:35
Nope, tuning is great with my Chadash/Smith. You sure you're not biting up there?
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2006-09-19 06:14
I've also found that a Chadash barrel makes the throat notes slightly higher on my R13 than they are with the original Buffet barrel.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-09-19 10:47
CHADASH TUNING
I must state clearly hear that the barrel has a magnificent effect on the timbre and projection - almost a MUST combination for the Smith mouthpiece.
I do most likely have a certain approach to the voicing that is causing an "intonation discrepancy." Though it is helpful to know that this "cone" allows one to have this upward flexibility in pitch so that one can be cautious, obviously Morrigan does not have this problem.
My further caveat is that I am very possibly looking to permanently switch to a Yamaha CSG in the near future, so the time spent fine tuning a barrel on an R13 would be better invested elswhere.
So Greg, NO MISMATCH at all - I LOVE the Chadash sound dearly, it's just not in the cards for me at this time (much snivelling and crying).
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-09-19 14:35
Liquorice:
As you may know, the standard stock Buffet barrel has a cylindrical bore and is also relatively large compared to their inverse tapered barrels. This drops the throats significantly and contributes to a different shape of sound.
This is only to say that depending on the mouthpiece one plays, especially the ubiquitous Vandoren (non 13 bore series) and others with similar tuning characteristics, that the mouthpiece and barrel compensate for one another. (The 13 bore series is designed to be played with the inverse taper barrels.) These are not hard and fast rules owing to individual players' natural pitch tendencies and degree of natural flexibility but are the theory behind the practice.
Buffet and Vandoren have had a long, close, and productive relationship - their French "testers" driving the design of Buffet clarinets in tandem with the Vandoren mouthpieces that they play and vice-versa. This fact is reflected today in a new, more formal public partnership that has been under way.
For these reasons, it would only make sense therefore that Buffet offer three different barrels with various bores (not to mention various lengths), to facilitate the usage of all mouthpieces on the market.
Gregory Smith
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