 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: nes
Date: 2006-09-08 06:47
(Bb clarinet) I have a 66m buffet barrel, standard. I have to pull out a long long way each reeharsal to get my standard poitch instune, and at the middle joint. I'm considering getting a custom made 69m, or just any 69m barrel to fix some drastic problems. Any thoughts please? Should I just try for a new clarinet
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2006-09-08 09:29
I had similar problems with my RC prestige Buffet. Playing under lights or in a pit it was always a strugle to get to A=440.
I bought a 67mm barrel which solved some of the problems but created one or two others.
My next move was to try the Vandoren series 13 mouthpieces. I now find I prefer the sound of these to the standard Vandoren. I play both a B45 and an M13 lyre depending on my mood (have to vary the reed strengh). With the 13 series I found I could return to my 66mm barrel. I think they are the best thing since sliced bread.
Of coarse If you are still very sharp I would consider another instrument.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2006-09-08 13:24
There is a valid thought amongst the barrel guru's that the necessity of anything over 67mm indicates a defect in one of a couple areas:
your mouthpiece
your barrel
your clarinet
your fundamentals
And in specific combinations of the above which you have chosen.
You did not indicate that you pull out at the bell at all. Where you lengthen the clarinet is not an overflow plan: "I have too much at the barrel, next the middle joint, too much at the middle joint, next the bell." Following this idea will throw any instrument out of tuning alignment.
If your clarion c is out of tune...you tune it at the joint nearest that note, which is the bell. If it is your lowest c, then I would pull from the middle joint.
I pull from the barrel when the overall pitch of every note is sharp, but not to the detriment of my throat tones and chalumeau f and e.
Starting with the proper tuning of the instrument will begin to help.
But everyone here would be better able to help you if they knew what your setup is. So what are you playing on?
James Tobin
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Ray
Date: 2006-09-08 13:44
I have read that some student model clarinets have an upper joint which has been shortened by two or three millimeters to help the beginner who often plays very flat.
I play a Vito V40 for outdoor concerts in the heat or cold. I find that I must pull the barrel and mouthpiece a total of three mm to play in tune, even indoors. I measured the upper joint and it is shorter than my R13.
Maybe its your clarinet.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-08 14:46
"I measured the upper joint and it is shorter than my R13."
The upper joint may be shorter than your R13, but the bottom joint might be longer. Not all clarinets have the same length joints, for instance, the Yamaha CSG has a long top joint.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-09-08 15:49
There is a bout a 20-cent difference in pitch between the normal and -13 series Vandoren. On a buffet, the normal mouthpiece is sharper than the 13.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-09-08 16:58
Is your instrument standard pitch?
Check the serial #.
Was it designed as a A=442 horn?
What mouthpiece are you using?
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2006-09-08 17:01
There were some Artley clarinet models that shortened the upper joint for the reason that Ray describes above.
Who the heck thought that was a good idea?
Instead of leaving the instrument the way it should be, you change it to accomodate the players flaws, and subsequently handicap them when they progress beyond that problem.
"Hey, lets make the throat tones REALLY SHARP, because that will FORCE them to learn to cover until they have to buy another clarinet!"
Brilliant.
Hello nes? What gear are you playing on?
James Tobin
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: abc123
Date: 2006-09-09 04:59
Hey guys thanks for the help so far.
I play a R13 Bb (and A, though the A is fine), I bought the instruemnt about 2.5 years ago. I play on a Greg Smith 1++ mp because I wanted to bring the pitch down, and I love the sound, it's a good mp. I use size 4 V12's but they are not too hard, and sometimes when I use much softer reeds I still find the same sharp problem.
If you want more information I'll be happy to give, thanks.
P.S: I'm using my friends account because I've forgot my password.
NES
Post Edited (2006-09-09 05:01)
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2006-09-09 07:32
I play the same mouthpiece but with RC prestiges. I am thinking a couple of things.
You may be biting too much (have too much tension without realising it - a problem I have/had and have been working on)
Your chosen reeds are maybe a bit hard causing you to bite... I used to play primarily V12 4's on this mouthpiece and would find it difficult to play at 440, especially after warming up. Since working on the tension in my embouchure and throat, I can't play on 4's anymore, and find many 3.5's too hard as well. I am now well and truely at 440 when I start playing and maybe 441 maximum by the time I warm up (some Australian orchestras play at 441 so this is acceptable).
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-09-09 12:30
Hi NES -
Since you state that your A cl. is OK (I'm assuming it is also a Buffet) then by using the process of deductive reasoning, the problem is most likely with the Bb clarinet. Do you have another (friend's) Bb cl. that you can try?
With that mthpc, one would rarely if ever need a longer barrel - many times a shorter barrel is needed depending whether one *naturally* plays higher or lower on the pitch. Nick makes some good points regarding how these tendencies *may* come about in some individual cases.
Alseg, as usual, asks good questions. I have had several European and South American students that have come to me with higher pitched Buffets (unknowingly) that they end up having to jury-rig with limited success or have to abandon altogether. It can be more difficult to diagnose these things long distance.
But again, the criterion in your case seems to be your A cl. I would first search out another, perhaps more reliable Bb clarinet to use as a comparator.
If you need to know or can provide any more specifics, you can always contact me via my email by clicking on my name at the top of this post.
Gregory Smith
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Author: doublej
Date: 2006-09-09 13:01
hello
I have had this problem also. My Bb is also an R13. could someone refer me to where I would be able to find out if my horn is in fact a 440 or 442 based instrument.
thanks
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Author: nes
Date: 2006-09-09 13:48
Thanks guys and gals,
I have asked my teacher to try it but he hasn't played it in a rehearsal context.. With my A clarinet I have to pull out a bit too but not as much for sure. I'm concerend it's how I play. I'll try to sort this out. Thanks. P.S: I presume its at A=440, atleast i think it was when I bought it.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-09-09 14:01
What Greg Said........have someone else play the horn, too....same result?
Play theirs....their horn works ok with you?....then time to check the Bb into the Bb wing of Cook County Clarinet hospital, intonation division.
The mouthpiece is not an issue here.
The 69mm barrel....what is the bore size? Something is amiss....the game is afoot. Quick, Watson....the gauge. (apologies to Sir Doyle)
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2006-09-09 14:37)
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Author: nes
Date: 2006-09-09 14:37
Thanks Alseg. I need you to move to South Australia or a clone of yourself. When I get good enough I *could* go to the US.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-09-09 23:23
Actually that thing about Cook County was an insider joke for Greg......it is in Chicago and takes care of a lot of traumatic injuries.....although I doubt they ever treated a stingray barb wound.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-09-10 01:03
Do you mean St. Elsewhere?
My sister (who's a doc) did an internship there a couple of decades ago when I started here with CSO...visited her there back then.
I don't know how much things have changed since then, but I wouldn't send MY old Bb there.
Gregory Smith
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-09-10 01:38
It might get a liver transplant.....quite a place...I took a continuing education course there about 15 yrs ago.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2006-09-10 02:10
nes,
You said that you have a 66m buffet barrel, but you never mentioned the clarinet. In the beginning of the 20th century Buffet clarinets actually had 68 mm and 69 mm barrels. So, if you play one of these you're right, you need a longer barrel. If your clarinet is an R13 then you'll have a tuning nightmare (especially in the throat tones) with the 69 mm barrel.
Try the 13 series Vandoren or any 'big bore' mouthpiece and lighten up on the reed.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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