 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-08-24 11:02
I recall having a GREAT time with low Eb bass clarinets from Leblanc in the past. I have an opportunity to get a low C Leblanc horn but was wondering...
- Does Leblanc even make a bass clarinet anymore?
- If not, what would be the latest production date?
- Anyone with low C Leblanc experience: What do you think of them in comparison to the Selmer/Buffet instruments?
.......thanks in advance,
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-08-24 13:46
A "confession" in the wrong thread! I've played Leblanc low C bass clarinets since 1962. At the time I bought my first one I wasn't able to get a Buffet or Selmer "factory" low C instrument. My first model 517 was soon replaced by a prototype designed by M. Houvenagel of which, as far as I know, only two were produced -- one for me and one for George Weber of the Chicago Symphony. At my request Leblanc added a second register key to the instrument which opened the throat Bb vent instead of the single register vent -- giving me the option of an in-tune and resonant long B. (Subsequently Paul Covey and Bill Brannen have fashioned similar mechanisms for a few other users of the Leblanc instrument).
I was always very content with the sound of the Leblanc -- more polite than the Selmer horns, but with better carrying power than the then-available Buffets. Intonation was excellent -- when on a few occasions I "subbed" with another major orchestra, I was complimented by members of the clarinet section about the ease of playing unisons and octaves together!
Unfortunately, sometime since then Leblanc abandoned the larger "500" bore for bass clarinets; when I went to a local music emporium with a student of mine a few years ago to help her select a new instrument, we were unable to find a low C Leblanc with anywhere near the same characteristics as mine (serial #c.6000). She ended up buying a Buffet with my advice.
Paul, if the Leblanc you are considering is the one offered on a well-known internet auction site, contact me off site and I'll give you my "take" on the one I saw there.
Pet peeve: a company that calls their bass clarinets "harmony" or (worse) "background" instruments! Blood boils!
Larry Bocaner
National Symphony Orchestra (retired)
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Author: LCL
Date: 2006-08-24 16:34
I have a Leblanc Model 430S (Low C) built in 1997. Since then, I have had resonators added to all of the pads on the lower joint and several on the upper joint. IMHO this made a significant difference in the sound, by that I mean better projection and clearer more centered tone on the low notes, especially the extended range ones. Also the sealing characteristics of the horn I feel were improved. I use a fairly open Fobes MPc, Rovner ligature, and Legere # 2 reeds. The bore on my horn is 0.945", I believe. I like the horn a lot and it serves me well as an amateur with 50 years of experience. For me, it is a well built horn, although many have criticized the Leblanc for certain design issues. You can search here for those posts. I know nothing about the horn you are considering, but wish you luck and guidance as you make a selection.
Regards,
LCL
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2006-08-24 20:52
The mechanism on the one that I am familar with is not very good. I really do not like the way the neck attaches to the body of the instrument. It just is not the same quality horn as the other ones available.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-08-25 01:58
I've not play a low C Leblanc, but have had extensive experience with their pro level horns back in the 1960's and 1970's. For whatever good features they may have, the quirky fork Eb always made the three "fingerholes"on the lower joint sound muffled, and the "no linkage" register key mechanism always made the notes operated by the right hand in the "clarinet" register seem unstable.
However, it's been a coon's age since I last saw one in public. I've been told that the register key problem is a thing of the past; I certainly hope so...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-08-25 02:59
I'm not a fan of Leblanc basses, but I don't want to get Larry B. mad at me (and besides, he manages to sound really GOOD on the bloody things!).
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-08-25 13:19
Having "dissed" Leblanc in my earlier post, I am motivated to come to their defense after reading Terry's and DAVE's posts.
DAVE, I don't understand your objection to the metal-to-metal attachment of the neck to the body of the Leblanc basscl's. I find it to be more stable and less prone to leak than the corked tenons found on most other marques. Remember that the mechanical stress on this joint is different than it is on Bb clarinets and the like -- we are not "pushing the instument together", rather we are (unconsciously) trying to lever the neck out of the top joint socket with our jaw pressure. Seems to me that a metal sleeve is much better suited to handle that torsion than a wood socket and tenon.
Disclaimer: I'm not an engineer; any thoughts about that from those of you who are mechanically gifted?
Terry, I'm puzzled by your assertion that the forked Ab/Eb somehow muffled the sound of the right hand notes; this is completely contrary to my experience and observation. I've always admired your thoughtful and intelligent contributions to this forum, but this one hit me like a ton of bricks!
As for DAVE's aspersions to the build quality of the Leblanc instruments, let me just say that they have always been the choice of big-band travelling musicians for the stabilty and dependability of the mechanism. I had fun comparing horns with Harry Carney years ago when we did a joint concert with the Ellington band. And I've seen too many Selmers whose underengineered bridge key mechanism would bend at will.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-08-25 14:25
You say it well, Larry, like I tell one of our daughters, "YOU could have been a good engineer". I'm [a fair] one, but chemical [perhaps a bit comical], so, as such, I agree with your descript. of stresses etc. From my limited acquaintance with Leblancs, I liked the metal-sleeved joint OK, but had reservations re: it's attachment to the U J [leaks-squeeks?]. Yes, liking the Full Boehms, I was pleased with the Ab/Eb L J "fork", using it came naturally. Yes, reliability of Lebs is V G. AM thots, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-08-25 14:49
I should have added, Don, that someone (don't remember if it was Brannen or Moennig) doubled the number of screws holding the metal sleeve to the upper joint, and replaced the factory beeswax sealant with silicone. No leaks--other reasons for the squeeks!
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-08-25 16:01
On the Lebanc horns that I used extensively during the period (all pro level ones, two on trial and one belonging to a local college, had the "muffling" problem with the lower joint.
I've played bass clarinet for a long time now, starting back in the late 1950's, on a wide variety of different horns (from Kohlerts to Albert system Buffets to a wide variety of Selmer student and pro level horns and (over the past fifteen years) Buffet, Yamaha and Selmer pro horns on trial), and I still maintain that - for me at least - the LeBlanc horns that I have played (all pro level, as far as I can tell, but one was one of those "joined at the hip" two piece wood horns with a strap screwed across the body pieces; with that evidence, I feel that it may have been a level below the top end) were all saddled with a degree of muffling as a result of the fork mechanism.
In one of those cases, I had the offending tone holes repadded, thinking that maybe there was too much protrusion of the leather towards the seat when the hole was open. Nope, no change. (Resonators may have made a difference, but they were too sax like for me to consider back in the 1970's...just at the start of my seduction away from the true path of bass clarinet playing and into the world saxophonic.)
Mind you, I've got nothing against the products of the Leblanc family. I am a big partisan of their Hovenagel "paperclips", believing them to be head and shoulders above superior to other contras on the market (if somewhat pointless to own), and I have played and enjoyed various LL horns over the years (while never owning any). It's just that their bass clarinets seem - to ME, at least - not to be up to the level of the other offerings from other makers in the field.
(And, I'll go on record here again as saying that I positively hated the trial I had with the newest model of the Selmer "high end" bass, early last summer. The keywork was clunky and did not feel "firm", the tone was substandard compared to my Model 33 (when played with a "setup" that has served me well on every other bass clarinet in Christiandom for decades), and (overall) the damn'd thing just didn't feel "right". Not the same experience that I've had with Yamaha horns (which I also did not like for tone issues, primarily) or the few modern Buffet horns that I've tried over the years (where . So, it's not just a "I bleed Selmer if wounded" issue. For an even more involved version, ask me about saxophones some time.)
And, aside from the fork mechanism, the register key system employed was enough to put me off of them permanently. As you (I think) pointed out, it can be fixed (to some extent) by linking things to the trill key, but that's a solution that's not open to the normal player. And, it's one that should have been obvious to the minions of Leon Leblanc many, many years ago, yet went un-addressed for a long, long time.
(I understand that nowadays, the pro level Leblanc horns have the "standard" lower register vent linkage. (I would check their website, but the one time that I tried it was too graphics intensive for our pathetic 28,800 baud online connection.) As I've not seen one for many years, this problem may have finally been addressed. Too bad for them that the other manufacturers (Selmer, Buffet and Yamaha) beat them to the punch by so many years.)
As for the upper sleeve on the Leblanc horns, none that I have ever examined have shown any wear or tear up there, and that included a number of college level instruments that were (ahem) "not provided with the best care in the world". Contrary to earlier expressed opinions, I have found the Leblanc "metal on metal" sleeve to always be in airtight condition, and (even with abuse) to usually be a better solution than a standard or custom Selmer neck with worn cork. Of course, the Leblanc came with the "tenor sax" version of the neck angle, another problem that the folks from Kenosha seemed to be wedded to for far too long, but I digress.
It would be nice to have the ability to combine all of the various features that we individually prefer with musical instruments (tone, "resistance", dimensions, keywork, neck angle, etc.) into one custom solution. I'd kill for a full Boehm Selmer Recital matched pair, much less a bass with the qualities of the Recital horn, but I know that it ain't gonna happen.
Not all of us have the clout of a Woody Allen, who had Selmer turn out a brand spanking new edition of his beloved Albert system horn that suffered a fatal crack. Too bad for us....
(Also see the next posting, which is a bit of a rant about comparing these beasts in the first place.)
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-08-25 17:04
•••A Note on Instrument Comparisons•••
Save your time and scroll past this one if you aren't into psychological theory issues.
I've spent a long time blowing far too much air through large woodwind instruments over the years, and perhaps all of that back pressure has started to affect my brain. But, it seems to me that, when comparing the likes of bass clarinets, baritone saxophones, bassoons and all sechlike, very few of us are playing with a full deck.
To begin with, there's the cost factor:
These things are expensive, and expense in turn makes them rare. If an item exists only in a 1:100 ratio with a more common version of that same item (i.e., bass clarinet to Bb soprano clarinets), the opportunities are just not going to be there. And, rarity leads to some massive generalization out of necessity.
For example, despite all my bass clarinet hours in the last forty years or so, I've yet to play a metal bass clarinet, and have only seen pictures of them to date. I take at their word the opinions of others who say that they have the same tone as a wooden one and so forth. But, there's absolutely no way that I can verify that.
Other are in the same position with the Albert system bass clarinets. Sure, there are there (my family once owned one (at one point, my Grandpa Bill had two, one in A and one in Bb), and I played one in college for a year), but 99.9999% of the bass clarinet playing public (itself a pretty exclusive group) is never going to see one, much less get any meaningful playing time in on one. So, you're just going to have to take my word that an Albert bass is a decent instrument (at least in the form that Buffet produced them) and that it's about as good as a contemporary in many ways.
Admittedly, these are the outliers. However, when speaking of professional level bass clarinets (or baritones, or bassoons, or (be still my beating heart) contrabassoons), the opportunities are still very thin on the ground.
(Contrabassoon story: I once played a straight Heckel contra for a concert involving Beethoven's Ninth. There are those who will say that the contra part therein can be done by a mortal, and I am here to tell you that I couldn't hack it on that beast, even though I could manage the Fag II part well enough on a standard Heckel horn. It was like holding a "paperclip" contra clarinet two feet away from your body, and then trying to keep your eye on the music. The horn belonged to Washington University (St. Louis), and I never saw it used any other time. Having played it, I can understand why...)
So, when most say "I prefer the (insert name of manufacturer/model number) bass clarinet over (insert name of evil manufacturer) horns," they are really not speaking from a position of authority. Few of us have played more than one or two brands of these horns, much less had them available for a "side by side" trial, simply because of the expense.
WHile I was able to pick my adult bass from a field of a few of them, I would venture a guess that (in that case) it was an exception rather than the rule (as it would be for the purchase of a white bread 17/6 soprano by a serious student or professional). None of my "serious" bass clarinet contemporaries took the trip to Indiana, and I imagine that it's still that way today.
And, the problem extends to more than just the instrument. Bass clarinet mouthpieces, ligatures, reeds and necks are all far, FAR more expensive than their soprano analogs, and most people aren't able to pony up that kind of dough to do the same sort of exhaustive "research" that would be done by a soprano clarinet player (not to mention that most of us have not done this on soprano clarinets either).
And, if it's bad with bass clarinets, it's ten times as bad with baritone saxophones and one hundred times as bad with a bassoon or contra bassoon. Imagine shipping around six new Selmer baritones for a "selection trial". Hell, that would be a van load of cases right there, and not really all that large of a universe to select from in any event. Accessories are the same: i've got over a thousand dollars worth of "I use them" baritone mouthpieces, and I don't even consider myself a "gear junkie".
Truth is, the farther away we get from the "elementary school recommended instruments" (which I see as flute, soprano clarinet, alto sax, trumpet, tenor trombone, snare drum and little else), the smaller the universe there is to choose from. Tenor sax players can do pretty well, but I've yet to see a room full of bass trombones or tubas that I could drop in on with minimal notice and "try things out".
So, it's people like Don Berger (who is retired, and has the money to look into the myriad of horns that are out there), or David S. (who sees them pass his way during his job), or (yes, Virginia) specialists in particular instruments like me who have to "make up" for this lack of opportunity for everyone else. To the extent that we are qualified to make these judgments, we are taking up the slack for all.
Of course, that's not to say that Don is sane (and his collection habits sometimes seem to indicate otherwise), or that Dave doesn't have a few rods and springs loose from too much time spent at the bench, or that I haven't gone completely bonkers from playing bass clarinet vamps in Broadway shows over the years.
(I did a production of Hello Dolly! many years ago, where there were problems with qualified dancers in the chorus. As a result, they had to do some costume changes in the midst of the extended Harmonia Gardens scene (the numbers of which were "Hello Dolly" and "Waiter's Gallop" and "Dance Contest"). The problem occurred when one of the waiters, who had just done a star, acrobatic turn during the Gallop sequence, became somehow cross- threaded in a costume change and could not make it out in time for his part in the "Dance Contest" portion of the scene.)
(In between the Gallop (with its alternating "tea time movie" music and the very physical dancing on the part of the waiters) is a one or two bar vamp, over which is some Dolly Levi dialog that sets up the next scene. This particular production had padded this out a hair, just as a safety for the required costume change, but they were thinking a maximum of maybe ten to fifteen seconds more, not minute upon minute.)
(So there we sat, pizzicato strings on the after beats and string bass, bass clarinet and piano, ripping off the same little figure ("Barrump, bump; barrump bump, da capo. ad infinitum) over and over and over and over while the chorus boy was stitched into his damaged costume for the second half of his performance. Of course, the bass player and strings were on autopilot, and the pianist somewhere near that (although she moved into high anxiety-mode as time went on), but I was slowly turning blue from the lack of opportunity to get a good clearing breath in the limited time allowed. I lost count after a while, but it was the longest time I've ever spent playing the same five or six notes in my life. Had I not already grown pretty tall, it would have probably stunted my growth...)
I try to compare and contrast with everything that I buy, and musical instruments are no exception. It's just a shame that, for most of us, doing a meaningful comparison for the likes of bass clarinets, automobiles, sailing yachts, spouses and other such expensive toys just isn't feasible.
H'mmm, I wonder how many times Don Berger's been married?
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-08-25 17:46
GBK, appropriate? Just once, Terry, and at ages 87, still together in an "Independent Living" retirement complex in NE Okla. We haven't considered divorce for quite a while now ! Am now going to have to read your "dissertationS" for reasons other than good info !! Maybe I'm just "mellow", listening to the Mozart Horn conc., our band had a pro play it with/for us, NICE, while working on my Sel 33, also quite good, but ONLY to Eb [D with a "tube" !!] , Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-08-25 18:51
Terry,
Whether or not I have a few loose parts upstairs (I would certainly agree that I do), I really enjoyed your mini-essay above, and agree with your astute observations. I should point out for historical accuracy that I have a full-time non-musical day job, and thus all my 'bench time' is done evenings and weekends (when I should instead be bar-hopping or watching the football games on TV), so to that extent it's true, I'm not exactly playing with a full deck.
Low-grade mental incompetence notwithstanding, one of the reasons I play around with old clarinets and saxophones so much is that I DO get the opportunity to play many, many sizes, brands, and models of clarinets and saxes, as well as becoming intimately familiar with how they're built. I've made some observations of my own, which I'd like to pass along to others not so 'experientially fortunate' as I:
1) There are many ways to 'skin the cat' in terms of clarinet and saxophone design. There is no one "best" material, no single "best" bore shape, no "best" mechanism. There have been a large number of variations on even the basic Boehm clarinet (to use a familiar example), and, when thoughtfully implemented and well constructed, these various approaches can and in some cases have resulted in instruments that play beautifully!
2) It is not necessary to focus on an expensive, new name-brand clarinet (or sax) and pay top dollar for the privilege of playing a comfortable, secure, nice-sounding instrument. Without going into my usual sermon about 'off-brand' instruments (I've offended the Buffet Mafia quite enough over the years, as well as the Leblanc Mafia in the case of bass clarinets), let me assure you that there have been many, many excellent clarinets and saxes built within the last century-plus that do NOT have the names Buffet, Selmer, Leblanc, or Yamaha anywhere on them. In fact, many of these fine instruments are from manufacturers that I'd bet 99% of the woodwind-playing public has never even heard of.
3) The Internet has opened up a vast universe of knowledge about, and availability of, these lesser-known instruments. To a large extent this is thanks to The Internet Auction Site Whose Name Shall Not Be Mentioned (TIASWNSNBM), as well as to forums such as the woodwind.org Clarinet BB (this is the best one, by the way!). If you have just a bit of intellectual bravery and are willing to take a chance and venture outside the mainstream in your choice of instruments, mouthpieces, etc., there's a big, wonderful world of fantastic choices out there for you to try.
4) The flip side of 3) is that, of course, there is a LOT of pure garbage out there too, so as always, CAVEAT EMPTOR.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-08-25 20:58
Well said, D S, TKS for re-direction to our common subject[S]. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-08-30 03:10
Well, I don't know about you, but I paid a hefty price to acquire my "pro" bass. As covered above, it's pretty hard to evaluate bass clarinets, baritone saxes, bassoons and the like, and so any data points that might have come my way prior to writing the check was more than welcome. I was lucky enough to interface with players more experienced than I, and to play as many horns as possible before it became time to put the money on the line.
And, while people may have spent a considerable portion of their career designing these things, they are not being offered up as abstract objects d'art, but rather products for purchase. As we do with cars, houses and any number of any other expensive stuff, we want to make the right choices when we purchase them. Other's opinions are valid as far as they go, but (as consumers) we are plenty well entitled to criticize what the makers turn out.
I'm not a Buffet []mafioso, nor am I exclusively a Selmer partisan. (Note my comments on the new Selmer bass above.) Although I love the "sound" coming out of my Conn horns, I'm the first to stand up and say that the keywork is nothing more than a poorly designed solution to a problem that has been largely solved elsewhere. And, my opinions are just that, something that I'm entitled to and you are entitled to disregard if you wish.
But, "flaming"? Nah. Just another take on an individual's choice and preferences.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-12-13 03:29
i think the leblanc desighn of the metal reciever and metal tenon neck is the best of for bass. and i prefer it on alto clarinet also. nothing worse than playing with a loose neck due to a worn cork at the joint.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-12-13 19:43
The Leblanc metal socket isn't without its problems as it is still fitted to a corked tenon at the top end of the top joint and as it's never removed, the tenon cork will shrink and the whole metal socket assembly can wobble about.
The problem with most basses with the corked crook tenon is the tenon itself isn't a good fit in the socket as they're usually way undersize and offer no stability once fitted which is why bass clarinet crooks are notorious for rocking about. Having a well fitting crook tenon even without the tenon cork in place will ensure the crook won't rock about.
And then there's the mouthpiece which has a relatively short tenon and bass mouthpiece tenons are also undersize and no amount of cork will make them a solid fit.
The cork is rarely ever the problem nor the root cause of wobbly tenons - it's the undersize tenons that are the problem.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ebonite
Date: 2021-12-13 20:03
Chris P wrote:
>
> The problem with most basses with the corked crook tenon is the
> tenon itself isn't a good fit in the socket as they're usually
> way undersize and offer no stability once fitted which is why
> bass clarinet crooks are notorious for rocking about. Having a
> well fitting crook tenon even without the tenon cork in place
> will ensure the crook won't rock about.
>
I found that it can help to put a couple of strips of electrical tape around the metal sections on either side of the cork.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-12-14 01:23
Silicone rubber or neporene O rings of the correct diameter and thickness would probably work well with Leblanc bass sockets to maintain stability. The top tenon would need some slight alteration to accommodate them - most likely filling in the tenon slot and then machining two or three slots for the O rings as well as making the tenon a nice solid fit within the metal socket, making sure none of the screw holes or the speaker tube intrude into where the O rings go.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2021-12-15 15:51
It's a very old thread but re the comment on metal tenons being less prone to leak, it's the opposite. Metal tenons are far more likely to leak.
Corked tenons can have a pretty poor fit, the tenon could be old and a little loose, but unless part of it (or all of it) is missing they almost never leak.
Metal tenons can leak far more often than people realize, as shown on saxophones where nearly all have a metal neck tenon.
Metal tenons also need more specialized tools and usually take longer to repair a leak (in comparison with replacing a tenon cork).
On saxophones, the socket is soldered to the body and although it happens, it's very rare that they leak or fall off. On bass clarinets they are glued to the wood/plastic and more likely to leak or become loose (although not the most common either).
>> The Leblanc metal socket isn't without its problems as it is still fitted to a corked tenon at the top end of the top joint and as it's never removed, the tenon cork will shrink and the whole metal socket assembly can wobble about. <<
Maybe I misread but what do you mean? That's the neck tenon and socket so it's metal on metal, at least the ones I've seen (do some models have a metal socket and a corked tenon?). Why wouldn't it be removed?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-12-15 18:18
The metal socket assembly on pro level Leblanc basses is a double socket - the narrow one with the slot for the crook tenon (just like a sax socket) and the large diameter one on the opposite end slips over the top end of the top joint and is sealed with a tenon cork and secured with some wood screws as well as the speaker vent.
Obviously having what is effectively a tenon and socket (semi)permanently fitted, the tenon cork will compress in time as moisture will collect between the metal socket and wooden tenon causing it to perish.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2021-12-16 09:42
Do you have any photos of this? The last time I saw one is years ago and I don't remember. Any photos I found look like a regular sax-style metal tenon with a socket attached to the upper section.
Or do you mean the way the socket is attached to the upper section...?
I've never seen anyone or any case where the neck is constantly attached to the upper section so I imagine that's not what you meant.
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Author: ebonite
Date: 2021-12-16 20:59
Chris P wrote:
> The socket is attached to a tenon on the top joint.
>
> Here's a photo of a Leblanc bass socket:
> https://www.clarinetsdirect.net/uploads/1/2/5/8/125864077/s366908124574107393_p141_i3_w2560.jpeg
>
That's interesting. It's a different design from the Noblet, even though most of the details are very similar on Leblanc and Noblet basses. I used to have a Noblet, and it had normal corked tenon on the crook, which fitted into a socket on the upper joint. The problem was that the instrument was very sharp, so had to be pulled out at the socket, and the crook became very wobbly because of that.
Glad I now have a Selmer with a tuning slide...
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-12-16 22:11
Noblets, Normandy and Vitos being intermediate/student level Leblancs are more rationalised in their construction and mechanism compared to (pro level) Leblancs. There is a core similarity, only the finer details between them differ.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2021-12-17 17:41
I saw photos of that and pretty much what I remembered from the one or two I've seen years ago, but I guess I just assumed they were glued to the wood part itself (or just used glue as a sealer and reinforcement). I didn't know they had a mostly regular tenon under. The one(s) I've seen didn't need to have this part removed anyway.
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2021-12-21 17:38
Larry,
What bore size are those "500" bore Leblanc basses? AFAIK Noblets & Leblancs already have a bigger bore than current day Selmers(my Privilege has a 23.5mm bore, and somewhat more 'polite' than the older Selmers IMHO) & Buffets(Prestige 23mm, Tosca 22.5mm if I recall??) at 24mm, but not sure which of them have that bore size except the current student & intermediate horns they make under Conn Selmer!
And yes, the term "harmony clarinets" is a bit dimunuitive IMO, even though I vastly prefer harmonies over unisons(especially when it's overused)!
Josh
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2021-12-21 22:44
I'm not too sure that older "500" Leblancs actually had a larger bore. I've measured instruments from the 50s that measured 24.0mm and I have the body of a low C bass made right before the fire that also measures 24.0mm. I've only read that claim here yet I've never seen any measurements or supporting data to back it up.
Those Buffet bore sizes seem quite small to me. My older Prestige (which the Tosca is supposedly based on) is 23.3mm. My 1954 Selmer had a bore of 23.5mm as well. I don't have a new Prestige to measure, but I do have an ICON neck made for one that has a bore of 24.0mm. This suggest the bore is around 23.5mm (my older Prestige has a 0.5mm drop so I assume the newer one does as well). If anyone has a newer Prestige they can measure let me know.
-JDbassplayer
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2021-12-21 23:38
Jared,
I recall Nicholas Baldeyrou(who is on the Buffet R&D team) once telling me that the ICON bore is actually slightly conical, hence maybe why you've got a bigger bore size on the ICON.
The Tosca has been said by some to have a smaller bore than the Prestige. I used to own the current Prestige(now sold to Brendan Toohey aka 2E in Melbourne) and may have measured its bore, and from other sources I seem to recall the Prestige's bore to be 23mm. The bore size of the Tosca I've mentioned was purely a guess(I've only tested one very briefly), hence why I've added question marks behind it, and I could be wrong on both(*EDIT: Turns out I was indeed wrong).
So as far as bass bore sizes go:
Leblanc>Selmer>Buffet
Leblance seems to like quite large bores on their low horns!!
Josh
Post Edited (2021-12-25 20:16)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2021-12-22 12:22
>> If anyone has a newer Prestige they can measure let me know. <<
The current Prestige is 23.5mm (i.e. the model they started making in 1999, with only a few cosmetic changes since then).
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