 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-05-23 22:35
I know that I have posted a few posts before this that were close, but they were not as serious in nature. My barrel has been stuck on my clarinet for 5 days now, and it will not come off. At the suggestion of a musician in my high school band, I have it laying out on the bed right now, airing out. What should I do?
On friday I will be able to take the instrument to a repair man and have it forced off and wood scraped, but I hope to do something before then. Any suggestions would be great.
Thank you in advance,
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
Post Edited (2006-05-23 22:35)
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Author: redwine
Date: 2006-05-23 23:01
Hello,
I almost hesitate to tell you, in case the clarinet cracks, but when mine used to stick, I put it in the refrigerator for about 10 minutes, then it would come off. I bought a reamer and don't have that problem anymore. Be careful.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-05-23 23:10
If others say that putting my clarinet in the refrigerator is best, I will do it. but, if it has a good chance of cracking, I would have to be very hesitant to do it. I will if that is my only chance though (it's effecting my tuning, and it would be good to be able to tune well for the concert).
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-05-23 23:11
ElBlufer wrote:
> On friday I will be able to take the instrument to a
> repair man and have it forced off and wood scraped,
> but I hope to do something before then.
> Any suggestions would be great.
Having seen the results of high school students trying to do it themselves and pry the barrel off the clarinet (deep gouges in the wood, splinters, bent keys, etc...)
My advice? Wait until Friday ...GBK
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2006-05-24 00:47
One thing that helps removing a barrel that is stuck is to rock the barrel back and forth as you pull it off. Don't just try to grab it and rip it off. Rocking it back and forth seems to be very effective and it is worth a try. I tend to agree with GBK that it is best to take it to a repair man/tech. But if you want to try, rocking usually does the trick.
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-05-24 01:13
Okay, going along with your ideas, I will wait until Friday when I can go to the tech. Unfortuantely, rocking does not work, as I have been trying that all along.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: hans
Date: 2006-05-24 03:13
ElBlufer,
I recall a post by Gordon (NZ), a professional repair tech, who described how to solve this problem by inserting a knife in between the two sections. Perhaps you can find his advice with a search.
Hans (had this problem once, took it to a pro repair tech)
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Author: Malcolm Martland
Date: 2006-05-24 08:59
A rubber kitchen wrench did the job for me when a mouthpiece got stuck in a barrel - many more bits to bend on a clarinet joint though.
Good Luck
Malcolm
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Author: Clarinetcola
Date: 2006-05-24 09:18
i had the same prob. the repair hammered the barrel off(don't try that :P), it really scared me. Does every repairman does the same job to stuck barrels?
Nathan
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Author: redwine
Date: 2006-05-24 10:25
Hello,
You might also try holding the upper joint as if you were playing and tap the barrel into your other open hand. This might "jar" the barrel slightly allowing you to pull the barrel off. You do risk breaking a tenon if you pry or pull too hard, so be careful.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-05-24 11:59
Clarinetcola wrote, "i had the same prob. the repair hammered the barrel off(don't try that :P), it really scared me. Does every repairman does the same job to stuck barrels?"
Definitely not. For ANY operation where there is significant risk of damage involved, using impact reduces the control that the operator has.
Also, sometimes the problem is a cork that has adhered to the socket for one reason or another. Impact would be particularly ineffective where there is a cushioning agent like cork involved.
Unless the cork has adhered very securely to the socket to the socket (eg paste shellac was used for the cork adhesive, and it has seeped to the socket), I have ALWAYS succeeded simply by using a lot of arm/wrist strength to twist the barrel off.
With such an approach, I think the risk of damaging a tenon is very close to nil. It is difficult to break a barrel tenon. You really need to have leverage like that associated with an assembled centre tenon, along with sitting on the instrument on a bed, or a deliberate effort to break it over your knee.
That is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about a very firm twisting action, along with a little axial tension, not a well-levered bending action.
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Author: Apresence
Date: 2006-05-24 14:00
I used to have this problem too. This is what I would have done:
1. Wash my hands and then wipe dry with a piece of cloth. If my palms are too sweaty, the grip will slip; if my palms are too dry, the skin will be too smooth.
2. Wrap the cloth around the upper joint and grip it with my left arm. Grip the barrel with the right arm, using bare hands.
3. Jump on the spot for a few seconds (This may sound strange... but read on)
4. And then as I'm landing, I'll give the barrel a jerk-twist.
This works for me and the instrument wasn't damaged the few times i tried ... but no guarantees.
What didn't work would be sustained force exerted on both ends by 2 persons trying to pull it apart.
Post Edited (2006-05-24 14:01)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-05-24 15:37
The way I've removed stuck barrels is to hold the barrel with the palm of one hand down firmly against a table top at the edge (or similar surface, and protected with a cloth so you don't mark the barrel or the table) and have the top joint (which is off the edge of the table) held in your other hand.
Then slightly rock the top joint in all directions while pulling at the same time and this should free it.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2006-05-24 17:41
I'm surprised nobody has said the obvious. Warm the barrel to make it expand slightly and cool the upper joint to make it contract.
How to do it is probably worthy of a whole post! Sticking the barrel into your barbecue may be a bit extreme, but you could try warming a few rags in the microwave, cooling some in the freezer, then wrapping them around the appropriate parts for a few minutes, followed by a sharp twist.
Worked for me! I'd borrowed a very old and unused clarinet from a friend and put it together without greasing the cork. You can guess the rest!
Steve
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-05-25 04:44
Actually grenadilla is quite temperature STABLE, one reason that it is used in preference to plastics.
Warming the outside of the barrel may well indeed dry it out, which would cause it to shrink if anything, and for a barrel which is already under tension on the outside surface, caused by the jammed tenon, this could be the final straw that makes the barrel split.
I rather suspect that the success you report was coincidental, for a different reason other than expansion of the timber.
IMHO.
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Author: bawa
Date: 2006-05-25 07:29
I was visualising all the different techiniques described here: it was quite a film!!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-05-25 15:20
Hlmmm.....I don't see anywhere that the barrel has been identified as wood or other material.
Bob Draznik
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-05-25 20:01
It is a grenadilla R-13 Clarinet. Thank you for all the suggestions, but the clarinet has now been sent to the tech. Hopefully he will be able to get it off.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: azuka
Date: 2006-05-25 20:45
The first thing I'd do would be to gently pull upwards and at the same time attempt to rock the barrel back and forth. This may loosen it.
If this doesn't work, I'd try injecting oil into the joint. Then repeat step A.
I'd be pretty nervous about using the freezer.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2006-05-25 20:47
-- "I rather suspect that the success you report was coincidental, for a different reason other than expansion of the timber." --
I didn't mention only expansion. The whole point was to also cool the upper joint.
The part causing the problem is NOT just the timber. It's the cork as well.
As for drying out, I don't see that as an important factor in what is a 60 second operation.
Who knows? Perhaps it was coincidence. But if it was, it was a pretty amazing one!
Steve
PS So just how will a tech remove the barrel?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-05-25 22:17
Look for vice marks when you get it back!
No, only kidding.
But if you do have a heavy vice mounted on a solid workbench you can use it to remove the barrel - wrap a leather belt around the barrel and put the free ends of the belt in a vice and tighten it up - the barrel will be held tight in the loop formed by the belt and with a bit of force you should be able to get the top joint to turn and then it should seperate from the barrel.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-05-25 23:08
PS So just how will a tech remove the barrel?
How will a surgeon treat a broken leg? Every single one's different. The simple formula reads "Experience combined with knowing what's physically feasible and possible, and what's not." Some things cannot be taught, they must be experienced. Including the failures, I might add. (That's where the comparison with the surgeon should end...)
--
Ben
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-05-26 15:45
BobD wrote "Hlmmm.....I don't see anywhere that the barrel has been identified as wood or other material...."
Although I've dealt with dozens of stuck barrels (and centre tenons) on timber instruments, I've never met a stuck barrel on a plastic instrument, unless there was a brand/model mismatch.
The sticking is because the timber of the tenon expands because it absorbs moisture from the bore, while the barrel remains relatively intact.
By comparison, any expansion of plastic from moisture is insignificant.
Plastic expands more than grenadilla with heat, so if the jamming were due to differential heat expansion, then I would expect jammed barrels on plastic instruments. Hence, I doubt that heat has a lot to do with it.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-05-26 16:06
Stevensfo wrote:
"I didn't mention only expansion. The whole point was to also cool the upper joint."
And I mentioned that grenadilla had high stability when subject to temperature change. It is MOISTURE content that swells grenadilla.
"The part causing the problem is NOT just the timber. It's the cork as well."
When a tenon is jammed, it is almost NEVER on account of the cork. A notable exception is when ungreased joints have been left assembled for decades, e.g. in baroque flutes that have been stored without being used.
"As for drying out, I don't see that as an important factor in what is a 60 second operation."
That is why I concluded that your success after the heat treatment was likely to be coincidental. The heating/cooling would have little effect on dimensions, and as you say, a few minutes is not enough time to alter the dimensions by selectively DRYING the timber.
"PS So just how will a tech remove the barrel?"
That has been well covered in the other threads, and also in my first contribution to this thread, where I said I simply use brute twisting with a little pulling. I imagine almost every other tech, would do the same, either with strong hands/arms, or with aids, as another tech, Chris, suggested two posts up.
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