 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ned
Date: 2006-04-30 05:34
I have a hobby of cataloguing my jazz records and noting the keys and key changes which are used – it's a bit of self education and trivia combined.
Having wound my way through thousands of tracks of brand new releases and re-issues of jazz, particularly from the 20s to the 40s, over the last decade or so, it has become increasing apparent that some companies which re-issue material from the ''golden ages'' tend to get it right but for one major point – the re-recording of particular numbers in the original key.
It's not a big point for the jazz aficionado and collector, who is merely a listener rather than a performer, but it's a real beef with me and others too, probably, who want to hear the music exactly as it was recorded for the purpose of learning.
I have just purchased a double lp collection of Duke Ellington from 1937-37 and the principal reason for buying it was the presence of Barney Bigard on most tracks. So…..side #1…..all's well until I get to track #6 ''Kissin My Baby Goodnight''. Seems like the band kicks off in Gb (concert that is) and after the first chorus there is a blinding solo run by BB incorporating a modulation to Db, this I presume is for the benefit of Ivie Anderson who takes the vocal from that point, and towards the end there is a modulation back to Gb. Whilst it is recognised that all of Ellington's crew ranged from that of highly expert to absolute virtuoso, I doubt that even the most churlish of orchestra arrangers would attempt subject his soloists to such feats of fiendish difficulty.
Given that all the tracks were recorded on the one day and comparing it to the keys of the other tracks, I would say that the keys for ''Kissin'' were F/C/F. This false sense of pitch is quite irritating in that, firstly, the feel of the piece is misleading. Secondly, the tempo is wrong – either too fast or too slow – depending on the whim of the producer and thirdly, in this instance giving Ivie Anderson the voice of Minnie Mouse in some of the higher passages.
My collection is riddled with material which has been re-recorded in a false key. I'd be surprised if I were the only one to notice such basic transcription errors. Why then, do numerous companies which re-issue material, not pay attention to this important point?
The LP in question is # 7 of a 7 LP series in a French CBS re-release S2VL 88140, for those of you who may know of them.
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Author: clarrie
Date: 2006-04-30 06:08
My guess (and it's only a guess) is that is would have something to do with different equipment being used to A) record the track, B) master it the first time C) get it from the master to the recorded media the first time - Then B1) remaster it and C1) get it from the master to the recorded media the second time.
Oh, and then there's another link to the chain of inconsistencies to add, the actual equipment that the retailed media is played back on.
There are a lot of different pieces of equipment involved in that process, each with its own idiosynchrasities and ~however slightly~ varying speeds. Recording/mastering equipment in the 20's or 40's may not have been set up to the same rigorous specifications that most equipment is these days, and it may be that somewhere in the recording/mastering/copying/playing process a semitone/tone or something other gets lost or gained.
Hm.
It's always been amusing to note the wild discrepancies between different tape players, different record players, and CD players. It's irritating a lot of the time.
I wonder if anyone in charge of these re-issues even really cared how 'faithfully' the original pitch was retained, through the 're-' process. Maybe, they don't even know, themselves. Perhaps the tuning was slightly out for the band, that night. Who knows.
It doesn't strike me as odd that no-one would take into account the different speeds and pitches of equipment when remastering things, the sound quality in ~most~ of the 'remasters' I've listened to is sub-standard. My personal opinion only, of course.
clarrie/K`
.Member of the Mouthful of M-30 club.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-04-30 13:33
Playback speed is the elephant in the living room problem for early recordings. Particularly with acoustic recordings (of Caruso, for example), the recording speed varied all over the map, from machine to machine and from day to day. Aficionados argue constantly over the original pitch, which could also have been taken down a half or even a whole step depending on how hung over the singer was that morning, or how tired in the afternoon after a day of recording.
Don't underestimate the virtuosity of the great jazz players. The wonderful "Hot 5s and Hot 7s" Louis Armstrong set includes a session take in which Armstrong says "let's take it down a half step," and then "let's try it a whole step down." Everyone does it with no audible effort.
Still, it's unlikely that the Ellington band would play in Db or Gb, and I suspect that the original was recorded a half step higher, and the transcriber simply matched the pitch to the closest half step on the piano. If the band had to lower the pitch to accommodate the singer, they would almost undoubtedly do it a whole step down.
On about half of the recordings of the Schumann Fantasy Pieces, #1 is played on the Bb clarinet, and half on the A. I can always tell the difference. There's enough inequality in the clarinet's scale, and the change from register to register is clearly audible. I'm not familiar with the Ellington track, and I don't play much sax, but I suppose the scale that's being played is equally audible to a single reed player.
By the mid-1930s, the recording speed was pretty much standardized at 78.26 rpm in the U.S., which was an easy speed to set, since with a 60 Hz synchronous motor with a simple worm-gear drive, a ratio of 46 to 1 produced that speed. In Europe, however, at 50 Hz power, the reduction came out at 77.92 rpm. See http://stereos.about.com/cs/glossaryandtools/g/78rpm_record.htm.
Nevertheless, there were still variations in speed. I have a CD reissue from 1934 of Emanuel Feuermann playing the Brahms First Cello Sonata, which is in E minor, except here it's in F minor. And it was transcribed by a famous engineer. For those of us without perfect pitch (and that includes me), there's no automatic way of knowing, except by noticing that the player's tone seems brighter than normal. (I learned about it only from a magazine review that pointed it out.)
There's no sure answer. You have to use your ears.
Ken Shaw
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-04-30 14:49
John R. T. Davies, who passed away a few years ago, was a genius of re-mastering jazz recordings. In fact, any time you see his name on a CD, you should snap it up. In particular, his remasterings of the King Oliver Gannet and early Columbia recordings are the best, as well as early Sidney Bechet and Louis Armstong (1925 to 1930). Look for his work on the following record labels: JSP, Kings of Jazz, Hep. I love his remasterings of Basie's Decca recordings on Hep. Another great re-masterer is Jerry Valburn, who specializes in Ellington recordings.
Here's a link to Davies' website with a discussion of "pitch correction" (scroll down a bit, but the whole of this FAQ is fascinating):
http://www.jazzrescue.com/faqs.htm
Post Edited (2006-04-30 14:49)
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Author: ned
Date: 2006-05-03 06:07
OK...thanks chaps, for your input. The websites look interesting too...I will read thoroughly when I get some spare time.
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2006-05-03 13:24
It's not at all unlikely for Duke's band to play in Db or Gb. Db was a favoured key by arrangers in the 30's & 40's in part because it took advantage of the low Bb on the baritone sax. I've seen scores in Duke and Strayhorn's own hands, in just about every flat key going...not many sharp ones though.
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2006-05-03 15:18
I didn't realize this until I have tried to play along with some recordings and couldn't figure out what was the matter! Some are okay, others are way off base. When I just listen to them, I don't notice anything unusual.
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