 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarrie
Date: 2006-04-23 06:16
Hi. I haven't posted here before but I'll just skip the waffle.
How old is 'too old' to play clarinet and hope to get a position in an orchestra or ensemble of some sort?
I know sheer ability would help here immensely, but that's part of why I ask this question.
Around 15 years ago, I used to learn and play clarinet in things like school orchestras and whatnot. I never really thought much of it at the time, and I wasn't that good. Nevertheless, I was competent and had taken/passed a few exams.
Then, I discovered the allure of 'popular music' and threw down the clarinet in place of a bass guitar.
Clarinet was a 'gay' waste of time, and I was happy to stop wasting my time with it.
*cough*
Until a couple of months ago.
I rediscovered my fondness for clarinet and have been struggling to regain my technique/embochure/sound/abillty ever since. (It's not really like riding a bike, you can't just jump back on!)
Hmm. So anyhow. I love clarinet and all, but I was thinking to myself that music and more precisely PERFORMANCE is my life.
If I don't have a setting that I can play *with* other people and FOR other people, musical instruments have so much less appeal to me. In fact, I may as well sell the clarinet, the bass, the electric bass and everything else I have spent money on in the past, recoup some losses and do something else like take photos.
I in despair. Every man and their dog is doing 'bands' these days, it's not hard to get into doing pub gigs for folk/rock bands.
How realistic is is to believe that I could find a position in an orchestra or ensemble of some sort, if I became 'good enough'?
Unless I'd been playing clarinet steadily since I was age 10, is there any hope for me at all? I'm 27 now.
I play-
Bb, alto clarinet, M30 mouthpiece, vandoren traditional 3+ reeds.
An (shame shame) Armstrong 4001 student model clarinet. Can't forget the armstrong cork grease either.
I think I last played the clarinet in '92/'93, before I stopped. Started playing again a couple of months ago.
Also featuring-
Double bass
Electric bass.
So, I am lost right? "Sell, sell, sell!" as they say ):
clarrie/k`
***ED'D: Can anyone please help me to get in contact with a good teacher in Sydney? I would be grateful!***
.Member of the Mouthful of M-30 club.
Post Edited (2006-04-23 07:31)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-04-23 09:55
If I don't have a setting that I can play *with* other people and FOR other people, musical instruments have so much less appeal to me.
You are not worth enough to justify playing? After all, you're doing it also for yourself, not just for and with others. Or do you skip the morning shower if you're staying home all day?
If every attempt at joining a band fails, form your own. Find some friends in a similar situation. What style do you have in mind?
Unless I'd been playing clarinet steadily since I was age 10, is there any hope for me at all?
No. Life ends with 30 you know.
In all seriousness, it's never too late to do anything.
I'm 27 now.
Uhm, that's mighty old indeed. 
--
Ben
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Author: clarrie
Date: 2006-04-23 10:22
"Or do you skip the morning shower if you're staying home all day?"
My, how did you know? I must really be a 'muso' now!!!!
*takes tongue out of cheek*
Hmmm. I guess I'm not that competent and get caught up in the idea that all the competent people are already in good positions *being* competent, and that no-one else has a chance.
I don't know why I can't just be content playing music 'for myself', but I can't. *sigh*
I'd prefer to play less jazz or contemporary style music, and more 'classical' music.
(-; Hey it's not like I said 27 was 'old', but it's older than when I stopped playing the clarinet and said to myself "I won't miss this at all".
clarrie
.Member of the Mouthful of M-30 club.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-04-23 11:18
First of all, congratulations on coming out of the closet and admitting publically that you are attracted to the clarinet - that's the first step.
Second, I do agree that playing music with other people is the goal - there are few greater enjoyments in life.
There should be many opportunities to find like minded amateur musicians in your area, as well as conservatory students, semi professionals, fee lancers and retired pros - all of whom might enjoy and be available to play occasionally or regularly in a pick up group. Try putting it together and it may lead to private or public performing.
A good source of willing amateur musicians is Amateur Chamber Muisc Players: www.acmp.net.
Depending on where you live, there may be any number of all ready established community orchestra, bands or chamber music groups. Seek them out and audition.
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2006-04-23 18:48
I'd second Larry's comments. 27 is a beginner as far as age is concerned. Your rock band experience will be a plus too. Last week at our community band practice we had a local high school girl sit in with the seconds, and at the other end of the spectrum, and section, was the retiree approaching 70. One of our regulars is a retired aero engineer who is over 80. He plays the matched pair of Buffets he bought while in college, quite well. He also plays in a community orchestra.
Ask at the local high schools about amateur bands and orchestras in your area. Most of the music teachers know exactly what's going on musically, from rock bands to chamber ensembles, to community orchestras. In fact, chances are they will be members of at least one performing group outside of school. It seem as though half the band directors and private teachers in my area are in the local community band.
Finally, don't be afraid to drive 50 miles or more to practice if need be.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-04-23 18:54
Finally, don't be afraid to drive 50 miles or more to practice if need be.
That'd be considered "through half the country" here.
--
Ben
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-04-23 19:02
tictactux wrote:
> Finally, don't be afraid to drive 50 miles or more to
> practice if need be.
>
> That'd be considered "through half the country" here.
Or one way to work here ... ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2006-04-24 00:28
I think there are many community bands that offer leeway to people who are new or re-learning their instruments. It should be a fun thing for you. You may be able to sit in while you are re-learning and get re-acquainted with your instrument at a faster pace.
This website lists community bands throughout the world:
http://www.boerger.org/c-m/groups.shtml
Search your country/major city and see what band is near you. I see a couple that are in Sydney, but many others in Australia too.
Regards,
Stephen
Los Angeles, CA
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2006-04-24 00:33
Also, never understimate the joy of subbing. I don't believe there's an age limit on that (as long as you can be reliable).
I hope to gain in skill and, after retiring from the military in twenty to thirty years, be at a level and time in my life where I can be a reliable sub to pit orchestras, symphonies, big bands, anything I can get into. I figure after twenty to thirty years of practice, if I'm not there yet, then I obviously made a wrong career choice . . .
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2006-04-24 03:05
Mark said:
>tictactux wrote:
>
>> Finally, don't be afraid to drive 50 miles or more to
>> practice if need be.
>>
>> That'd be considered "through half the country" here.
>
>Or one way to work here ...
Since the original poster is apparently in Australia, I wonder how far that equates to there???
Seriously though, my advice is just to KEEP PLAYING. Wherever, whenever you have the opportunity.
Katrina
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Author: melearly
Date: 2006-04-24 14:48
>
> Since the original poster is apparently in Australia, I wonder
> how far that equates to there???
>
Well in Australia we're all about metric so it equates to about 80 Kms
and yes that's not far to go here!
but totally agree with just keep playing! There are lots of good groups in Sydney, at lots of different playing levels, and it can be a really fun way to regain your embouchure etc. and feel like you have a reason for practicing before the next rehearsal
If you feel really out of practice a concert band might be a good start rather than an orchestra since they will have more available positions and you can move up through 3rd -1st parts in the same ensemble while listening to other players etc.
Best of luck with it!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-04-24 15:06
I would agree that you should seek out a community band or a small group with whom you can play and perform. If one is not available, you could attempt to put together a small ensemble that would perform at nursing homes, etc. until you can rise to the level you need for paid performances. Nursing homes are always looking for people to play for them and it's great practice. They love you warts and all.
Church orchestras are another great place to start playing in public. Most are pretty forgiving of mistakes and can help you gain experience.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-04-24 15:38
Brenda Siewert wrote:
> Church orchestras are another great place to start playing in
> public. Most are pretty forgiving of mistakes
Hmmm ... I would assume by definition that they'd be forgiving ... else make a mistake and ... ![[hot]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/hot.gif)
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2006-04-24 21:23
You seem to be concerned about age and getting a pro job. Think about this though:
Say the average clarinet experience to get a pro job is 20-25 years of playing and heavy studying with a private instructor, etc. I get this number because many people started around the age of 10 and they get their first big breaks at around 30-35 years old (maybe younger, maybe older, maybe never). If many people have done this before you, you can make it big someday. You will be an older person probably than the average beginner big gig seeker, but they mostly care about talent, not age (this depends of course, especially with military bands and certain groups). You might be around 50 when you finally are good enough to get an orchestral job, but still... it's never too late.
Also, community bands and orchestras are sometimes almost as good as some pro symphonies. Our local community orchestra has top notch players in it, and it is a very good group. If everyone in this orchestra had time to devote their full attention to the orchestra, it could go big. It's just that most of these people are teachers, stay at home mothers, instrument repairers, college music majors, or retired folk. Some of them have even played in pro symphonies before.
Make sense? Sorry if it didn't!
Well, good luck and keep playing the sweet tunes!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-04-24 21:35
I agree with Carrie's comments. Our community band has a large number of retired military and professional players, including retired band directors who are accomplished musicians. Most of them prefer the low stress atmosphere and just enjoy playing. So, unless you're going to be heartsick if you can't play in Carnegie Hall with the NY Philharmonic, try to find a good group of players like we've mentioned and enjoy yourself as you improve your playing. I play in other groups as well and still stay in the community band because of the friendships and fun. It also keeps me reading music that otherwise wouldn't be my cup of tea. Music is good for your mental health.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-04-24 22:41
Clarinetgirl106 wrote:
> Say the average clarinet experience to get a pro job
> is 20-25 years of playing and heavy studying with a
> private instructor, etc. I get this number because many
> people started around the age of 10 and they get their
> first big breaks at around 30-35 years old
> You might be around 50 when you finally are good
> enough to get an orchestral job,
Stanley Drucker was appointed Principal Clarinetist of the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra at age 16, the Adolf Busch Chamber Players at age 17, and the Buffalo Philharmonic at age 18.
There are many others who had similar success at an early age.
> Also, community bands and orchestras are sometimes
> almost as good as some pro symphonies
Not even close.
While some community groups may have excellent players on the first few stands, the quality of playing invariably declines quite dramatically further back in the section.
Pro orchestras have very strong players on every part and every stand.
Thus, the major difference in the quality of the performance...GBK
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2006-04-25 01:07
GBK-
Yes, I do realize that there have been very successful pros at very young ages. My argument though was that averagely, they are around 25-35. And, the main point of my argument was that you can go pro at ANY age if you are simply good enough to win the audition. It seems like you didn't really comprehend what I was saying or I didn't explain well enough. Oh well... I hope it's understood now.
Also, probably most community orchestras aren't up to a very high caliber throughout the whole orchestra, but suprisingly, I would say that my community orchestra is very good and if everyone could dedicate all their time to it, then it could suprise some people. It's a very good community orchestra and I think the level of musicianship throughout the orchestra is very good throughout it.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-04-25 02:09
carrie,
I don't doubt that your community orchestra is quite good and enjoyable to experience. I've play in some that I think are quite good too. It's great fun, isn't it?
But there's a world of difference between that and a professional orchestra. Really, to pretend otherwise is just delusional. Even a pick up professional orchestra like the Brooklyn Philharmonic consists of musicians who are all at the top of their game.
That being said, the future of classical music in terms of its widespread enjoyment and sustainability may be in community orchestras.
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