 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Care_Bear
Date: 2006-02-21 21:48
Hello all of you fellow clarinet lovers. I'm kinda new to this forum but I registered because I need some help!
I'm a sophomore in high school (kinda young, huh?) and I've been playing the clarinet for 7 years and I love it so much. I'm planning on majoring in music performance on clarinet and I would love more than anything to play with really prestigious ensembles (classical ones). But right now, I'm kinda stuck on something...
My clarinet is an intermediate one. It's a Selmer Signet, but I'm not sure exactly what model or anything. I know that it's made of wood, but again, I'm not sure exactly what kind. (I sound very naive and dumb, I know). ok, to be completely honest, we bought it on Ebay about 3 or 4 years ago. And honestly, it was in pretty good condition and it has served me very well over the past few years. A few months ago I bought a B45 mouthpeice and it's working really well for me. And just a few days ago I got over 50$ of repairs for it. they replaced some pads and adjusted some things. I play on a #4 Vandoren reed. I'm using a brand new reed and my awesome mouthpeice and my clarinet seems to be repaired, but for some reason it KEEPS SQEAKING and I'm really getting frustrated. I have no idea what to do about and my private instructor doesn't know exactly what it is either. I have State Band auditions in a week and a half and I'm really freaking out. I need some advice. Does anyone know what I could do?
[ Post retitled for clarity - GBK ]
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Author: chazman
Date: 2006-02-21 22:26
Are all the pads seated correctly? Sometimes a pad may not be seated properly and you'll have this resulting issue. If this issue has only appeared after the repairs you speak of I would bet here in is the problem..take it back to the repair shop and have them fix it ASAP. Also, ask them for a good loaner until they can correct the problem. Best of luck
Chuck
Post Edited (2006-02-21 22:32)
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Author: seafaris
Date: 2006-02-21 22:32
First I would try one of your older reeds, you say this one is brand new. Maybe the reed is not balanced properly. If it still squeaks I would have it checked out by another technician.
Jim
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Author: Care_Bear
Date: 2006-02-22 01:40
hmm... I tried using softer reeds but it always sqeaks still. I mean, I haven't used a softer one since I got it fixed. I'll try that though. I don't know if the pads are seated correctly. I'm not sure at all. Actually, I don't really know how to tell if they aren't seated correctly. But I take my clarinet to a music center where they sell reeds and do repairs and whatnot. But I've never been impressed with them. When i went to get my clarinet fixed recently, I didn't know exactly what was wrong with it. It just wasn't playing right. I knew some pads needed replaced but other than that, I wasn't sure why it was acting up.
However, I did kind of notice that my octave key is a bit weird. I think that might be why it just goes crazy and sqeaks. Maybe it's normal and my fingers just don't cover the holes or something. But it's like every time I even touch the octave key, or even THINK about touching the octave key it goes up an octave/sqeaks.
Anyways, I'll try using a softer and older reed, and if that doesn't work, I dunno. I'll ask my private instructor again even though I'm not sure there's anything he can do. Thank you so much for your help, everyone!
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2006-02-22 02:21
I'm with Chris P on suggesting a softer reed, along with some work on developing and channeling your air stream.
I'll bet that, like all too many clarinet players, you are using too much embouchure pressure and not enough focused air stream in your playing.
FWIW, many of us who consider #4s to be medium reeds would find a #4 Vandoren on a B45 mpc to be rather extreme.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2006-02-22 02:59
I'm also with the softer reed contingent. I find B45's to work much better with 3's or 3.5's.
Are these blue box Vandys or V12's??
Register key pad seating is important, but sometimes you can jump registers just by trying or thinking even if your thumb is nowhere near the key.
Hopefully your teacher can help you a bit more...
Katrina
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2006-02-22 03:13
Yeah, maybe your reeds, but MAYBE A PAD is still not sealing correctly somewhere. You need to find a technician who can tell you for sure what is going on with the mechanics of the instrument if there is anything.
Also make sure you're not biting with your embouchure to compensate for harder, newer reeds. VD 4's on a B45 ARE pretty stiff for most people.
-Tyler
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-02-22 06:50
Do a leak test on the top joint - you can do this yourself.
With the top joint only, lick your fingers on your left hand (to get a good seal) and close all the fingerholes, and stop the bottom end of the joint with your right palm (also lick your palm to get a good seal) and suck all the air out the top and hold it - you should be able to create a vacuum that holds for at least 10 seconds once formed. If the vacuum holds for less than 5 seconds or not at all, the joint is leaking seriously.
Also, with all the holes closed as above, blow air into the joint and listen for any air escaping.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-02-22 08:38
Also try the "opposite" of the leak test. That is, seal up the bottom, cover the holes.......and blow. Sometimes common leaks are the result of too little spring pressure to hold the pad down (though it's not always obvious, there is air pressure in the horn as we play and this could raise a pad on a key with poor spring tension).
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2006-02-22 15:49
Care_bare,
After doing the leak tests shown above. If the clarinet is still squeaking, take your mouthpiece and reed and play one of your friends clarinets. If you squeak on another instrument then your mouthpiece could be chipped or scratched or something. It sounds like the clarinet is the problem but sometimes mouthpieces go crazy with warpage. Also, I agree with everyone else that the reed is to hard. Young players always seem to gravitate to hard reeds because they think they get a dark sound. Really all that is happening is you have to bite so much to make the reed function that most of the overtones get lost. There is a big difference between a dark sound and a dull sound.
Ryan
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Author: hans
Date: 2006-02-22 16:15
Care_Bear
Below are some possible causes of squeaks (no particular order and not an exhaustive list) which may help.
I don't agree that you are naive or dumb, but you are smart to get advice from those with more experience to help in solving a problem.
Good luck.
Hans
- a dry reed
- accidentally touching a key
- the middle (bridge) joint in a clarinet is not properly aligned
- using a "wrong" fingering instead of a better alternate
- a finger not covering a hole
- a pad not seating properly
- a weak spring not holding a key closed
- keys out of adjustment (e.g., the A key)
- unco-ordinated fingering
- a leaking joint
- a cracked instrument (in a wood clarinet)
- too much mouthpiece in the mouth
- a burr on the mouthpiece top rail
- misapplied lip pressure
- a reed is split
- the reed is not perfectly sealed on the mouthpiece
- a reed is too thin at the center of the tip or is stiffer on one side than the other
- a poorly designed, worn, or warped mouthpiece (a warped mouthpiece can be refaced)
- the mouthpiece baffle (the slanted top inside the tip) is too high
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-02-22 18:57
You mention the octave key being "a bit weird." I think I would check out the pad placement and seal on that key and also the spring tension. Make sure it's operating straight up and down and not bent in any way where the hole isn't totally covered.
Then, also check your mouthpiece under a magnifying glass. Are there any tiny chips or rough places? That can be like a chipped reed to contribute to squeaks.
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Author: Care_Bear
Date: 2006-02-23 01:55
Wow! Thank you all so much for replying again!
I did try an older and softer reed (a rather used 3.5 Vandoren). It seems to work a little better but there's still a bit of squeaking which i'll try to figure out by applying your advice! The more I think about it, in the past when I tried using older reeds (because a newer one wasn't playing correctly), it did sort of help a little bit at first in terms of squeaking.
I never realized that with the kind of mouthpeice I have, a harder reed would make it harder to play on. I mean, i knew it would be different but I didn't know it would take a lot of time getting used to it.
Thank you all so much for your help! This is such a great site, I'll definately be using it frequently!
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2006-02-23 02:33
It's not about "getting used to" a specific reed strength on a new mouthpiece; it's about different mouthpiece facings reacting better with different strengths of reeds.
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Author: Dori
Date: 2006-02-23 03:13
Don't be ashamed of your Selmer Signet. I have been playing mine since 1970 and it performes quite well for me.
Dori
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Author: D
Date: 2006-02-23 23:28
For some information on mouthpieces and reed combinations try looking on the vandoren website. It has a chart which shows the recommended reed strengths for the different models of mouthpiece. You'll see that there are few recommendations for the harder reeds. Basically, if the two variables you need to worry about at the moment are; the length of the lay (the slopping bit) and its angle. These combine to create a tip opening. The wider the tip opening, the softer the reed that is needed to get a good response (all dependent on personal taste). Different reeds will fit different mouth pieces better, it is not just about the reed strength. There is also the shape of the curve at the tip, this needs to relate well the the curve of the tip of the mouthpiece. And, the length of the lay on the mouthpiece needs to have a corresponding length of reed to respond well. The width of the mouthpiece is also important. German mouthpieces have narrower reeds for example. There are also variables like the thickness of the reed, this is not related to the strength, but is the actual thickness of the blank at the end where you put the lig. This will then cause a steeper slope in the reed, and change the sound.
Lots of things to think about.
To keep it simple, have look at the charts which manufacturers publish on their websites which show the reeds they recommend for particular mouthpieces. Then see what works for you, your mouth will be different from everyone else. You might find the #4s are the best for you. You might turn out to be better on a #2. You could also find different brands suit you better.
Have fun, hope the squeaking stops.
Just a thought, do other people squeak on your instrument - preferably try someone who is a good player, and someone of about the same ability as you to get a good idea.
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Author: Wind Player
Date: 2006-02-23 23:41
I would point you to the direction of a warped table on your mouthpiece. I would have that checked and re-faced if necessary.
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Author: Care_Bear
Date: 2006-02-24 01:45
Once again, thanks for replying and helping! But I took my clarinet to a new music center, and they found the problem!!
The music center I always took my clarinet to has always done my repairs. Well my band director told me to take it to this other place, Volkweins. Well, they have very good technicians and they do the best repairs really, but we don’t usually go there because it's about an hour away from where I live. But we went there today to see if they could determine what the problem was, and they looked at my clarinet (I didn't even have to play it for them) and they said that when it was repaired in the past, it was only patched. And it was VERY poorly patched. Air was leaking from the joint piece in the middle (Because it kind of wobbles when I put it together), the pads aren't seated correctly, they don't seal properly, and they're really old. So Volkweins is going to completely refurbish my clarinet and I can pick it up on Saturday (pretty good, huh?). So I'm ecstatic about this, because now I know what the problem was and know that it wasn't entirely my fault. I was honestly starting to doubt myself, so I'm glad that a major problem was determined and it's fixable. I can't wait to play my clarinet after it has been fixed entirley.
Thank you all for your help!
Post Edited (2006-02-24 01:45)
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Author: chazman
Date: 2006-02-27 23:36
I'm so glad you got to the true source of your problem.
Chuck
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