 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Gobboboy
Date: 2006-02-21 19:43
Hi
From reading this board frequently I've noticed that there are quite a few experienced ex & current military musicians, so I was wondering if I could quiz you about how life in a top American Military Band differs from that of a European one? (I am in one myself whom is currently undergoing some major historical changes and would like to see how the rest of the world is doing it before I decide how to take it....long story sorry!) so, could anyone enlighten me..?
Is your Job entirely musical based (once basic military training is completed) or are you expected to keep up to date with training (weapons, fitness) etc?
Are you expected to follow troops into war zones and entertain?
Are their some bands that stay in the U.S with their sole role as ceremonial musicians?
Would you say that the top Bands (Army Field Band/Marines/Coast Guard etc..) are classed by their respected 'arm' as proffessional musical outfits and dont get involved too much with military life at all except for 'advertising' (bad choice of word probably) the Military and it's role.
How would a typical day in your life at work be?
any info would be very much appreciated
G
Post Edited (2006-02-21 22:24)
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Author: CPW
Date: 2006-02-21 22:18
VP Dick Cheney classified the R13 as a weapon of mass destruction when one was uncovered in Sadam's palace.
Aw c'mon, it aint political, just a Daily Show type joke at the expense of
Buffet.
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-02-21 22:21
This is an interesting discussion for me to participate in. As a current US army bandsmen, I can say that my job is not purely musical. As a matter of fact, from time to time, it seems that my job exists moreso to help with administrative work with the band. This of course varies, depending on what instrument you play. As a clarinet player, I mostly perform in ceremonies, and roughly five or six times a year in the formal concert setting, as the concertmaster. Occasionally, I have the opportunity to perform simple chamber music, and more rarely, advanced literature(twice a year perhaps). In addition to that, we are required to maintain our general military skills and physical fitness, which is essential to advancing in rank. We do follow troops into war zones both in order to entertain and to help maintain security if necessary. The primary function of the premier military bands is to function as a professional musical outfit, but they are also expected to maintain a professional military appearance, and there are physical examinations that must be performed to standard on a regular basis. There is never a typical day in the Army Band that I'm in, it varies so much depending on what instrument you play, which small ensembles from within the band you play in, and what your administrative duties are, so I can't really give you a good template. I'm sure everyone has had different experiences in the bands they've served in, and I look forward to hearing what they have to say. I don't know very much about the European military bands, other than they march some instruments we wouldn't dream of at tattoos. I never thought I'd see a bassoon or oboe in a marching band, but now I have. I have spoken to a former member of the Bundeswehr Musikcorps (German Army Band system) and they said they had a secondary job as a medic. I thought that was interesting. We are of course required to know how to administer basic first aid.
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2006-02-21 22:43
My experiences in a Regular Army Band (as opposed to a premiere/top band) pretty much parallel crnichols. In the top bands, once they've completed basic training/boot camp, the job is almost 100% musical minus the physical fitness test twice a year. To my knowledge, they never even see (or probably think about) weapons again after basic.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2006-02-22 00:32
Hello,
Jobs vary from band to band. I was in the Army band in Atlanta, Georgia for 4 years (not a premier US military band). This band was generally very good and we mainly played concert band concerts and performed ceremonies. We travelled about twice a year for two weeks at a time. We did not do military things except for the physical test twice a year and military training one day per year.
About 7 years ago, I won the audition for the US Naval Academy Band, where I still play as e-flat clarinetist. This is one of the premier US military bands. In our band, there are basically two tracks that you can choose from. First is to just play your instrument. This would be concert band concerts, military ceremonies, and chamber music concerts. The second track (if you wish to be promoted) is to do all of the above and work in an office of some sort. These office jobs can take as little as 30 minutes per day extra or an extra 4 hours per day. I've chosen to help out in the public affairs office for the band. I basically serve as an office manager, supervising the webmaster and the guy who writes our press releases. In addition, I make the program inserts for all of our concert programs. This band does not travel, so we always stay around the Annapolis area. Other than our physical test twice a year and our rating exam (test to determine eligibility for promotion) once per year, we do not do military stuff.
Other premier bands travel, but from what I've heard about them, there is little or no request to do office jobs for the chance of promotion.
Every job has its trade-offs. I think the US military band jobs are excellent. I would recommend them to any aspiring musician.
By the way, our band has an audition on March 15th for clarinet. It would not be too late to apply. Feel free to contact me directly for any more information.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-02-22 01:23
The secondary function of medic held by the European band member is nothing more than a continuation of a long standing tradition. During the days of Napoleon Ier, bandsmen were used as litter bearers and surgeon's assistants. Of course, things were a bit bloodier back in those days.
I was (very briefly) a member of the 4th Infantry Division band back in 1970 (on orders to join for a day or so, before sliding into an armored cavalry outfit instead). Those worthies spent their time being trucked around for various ceremonies and entertainment functions, but they also pulled their share of base camp guard duty (two nights a month, I think). Things have changed since "the old days", I would think.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Gobboboy
Date: 2006-02-22 14:36
Thanks for all your input, it's really quite interesting. I'm starting to get a better picture of what you're all up to over there! (especially after having Goolged your Bands!)
You all seem to have a well oiled structure to your job even though it varies from day to day.
Ben, in your band, if people can choose just to play their instrument and not get involved with the administration of it, how does your pay structure work? are you all the same rank on the same pay to start and then have annual increments or do you get promoted within the band based on musical merit/talent?
for instance if you have been in for say 20 years your experience would be invaluble and surely you would be paid more (& maybe have different privilges compared to a new member?)
I find it interesting to hear of other musicians performing regularly to have a second job in an office! My view would be to let musician be musicians and office staff to be office staff. especially when you're in a very busy band. Do you find that can hold you back as a musician (time spent elsewhere etc..)
Does anyone know of a full Symphony Orchestra within the U.S forces?
I thought I saw one performing at Ronald Reagan's funeral service in Washington some time ago?
oh, & Terry, up until quite recently British Military Musicians had a secondary role as medic too. Part of their basic training was a 7 week intensive course to train them to be proficient in field medical cover and basic nursing (everything from carrying a stretcher to performing a tracheostomy in the field!) these days they are used as chemical decontamination personell and for general duties.
G
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-02-22 15:03
I can answer a few of your additional questions. As far as pay goes, the longer you spend in the US military, regardless of your rank or which band you are in, your pay increases. Of course higher ranks get paid more, but it also depends on how long you have spent in service. The premier bands begin 2 pay grades higher than the regular bands. Also, lately there have been additional pay raises for everyone from year to year in an effort by the US government to place military salaries closer in line with comparable civilian employment.
There isn't a full sized symphony orchestra in the US military system, but there are three bands that employ a chamber sized string ensemble, that is often augmented by wind players to perform chamber orchestra repertoire. You did see one performing at Reagan's funeral, the President's Own Marine Chamber Orchestra, which is a part of the President's Own Marine Band. Also the Air Force Band at Bolling Air Force Base and the US Army Band "Pershing's Own" have string ensembles.
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-02-22 15:04
The division between band and military duties varies from place to place and time to time. When I was in the West Point Band, the entire population of enlisted men (and back in the mid-60s it was all men) turned out in fatigues twice a year for several days to rake up fallen leaves. The newer members of the band pulled KP duty about once a month, and also served about once a month as duty officer to answer phones during the overnight.
If (when) a new colonel arrived to command the various enlisted companies (band, MPs, engineers, etc.), he would usually pull an AG (Adjutant General's) inspection, where you had to shine shoes, polish brass, and do the various "Mickey Mouse" stuff. Shortly after I got out, the new guy did a snap inspection at the band barracks on a leaf-raking day and went ballistic over the mess. The result was that the band was yanked back into doing things The Army Way, where there were people who were truly, seriously concerned about the shininess of your shoes, whether you wore them or not, and running white-gloved fingers over hidden areas (cabinet door tops, pipes behind sinks), and heaven help everyone if they found dust.
It can be an easy life, but you must always remember that there are people who can decide whether your shoes are shiny enough and throw you in the stockade if you talk back. Unfortunately, the military seems to attract those kinds of people.
Remember also that you will from time to time march in parades, and ALWAYS right behind the elephants. . . .
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-02-22 15:28
Chris,
You wrote: "There isn't a full sized symphony orchestra in the US military system...." and maybe "full sized" is the operative phrase, but the US Army Orchestra played at ClarinetFest at the University of Maryland last year, and although they were 'chamber orchestra'-sized, they were really excellent! I was just as impressed with their playing as with that of the big-name soloists they were accompanying.
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-02-22 15:35
David,
It is the operative phrase, and those string ensembles paired with those wind players make for some of the best chamber orchestra concerts you can attend. If you live in the DC area and don't go, I think you must be mad, because the majority of their performances are free! I'd much rather hear them play than an orchestra three times their size that sounds one tenth as good.
Christopher Nichols
1st InfantrY Division Band
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-02-22 16:02
Chris -- thanks! I'm not mad, just busy.......but I'll try to get out there more and take advantage of those concerts as you suggest.
It's sort of ironic about living in the DC area -- with many of the top service bands (and orchestra(s)) based here, and many amateur/semi-pro groups also, we probably have greater access to high-quality free or inexpensive music than most other towns. But at the same time, the traffic is so bad, and people are so busy 'running the country' or whatever is they think they're doing (talking on their cellphones while driving their SUVs, mostly), that many of these available events are poorly attended.
Somehow I get the impression that things are different elsewhere.....
I apologize for the tangent. Back to the life of the military mugician (sic).
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Author: Gobboboy
Date: 2006-02-22 16:19
so the U.S Army does have an orchestra and a very good one at that it seems!! I read the pershing's own website with interest.
I would be interested to know what life is like for those string players (any Administrative work for them? (or any military kind of involvement at all?))
In my Band (The Royal Artillery Band & Orchestra, London) our strings have to 'double' on a wind instrument thus meaning that we have a concert Band as well, but made up of the same people. For Instance the leader of the orchestra is also one of our 3rd Clarinetists, double bass/Tuba & some violas play sax etc. &, still manages to have the reputation of being one of Britain's top military band and it's only orchestra.
We also take part in many ceremonial duties, (this morning I was in the Ballroom of Buckingham palace in London playing Baermann's Adagio with the chamber orchestra for an investiture ceremony held by the Queen, But next week we will all be a Marching band performing at a show or tattoo of some kind -
my initial enquiry was about trying to see how self sufficiant (administrativley) most of these bands are and if they are left alone by the wider army or service to get on with the full time job of being a professional musician that is required to be so flexible.
G
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-02-22 18:39
The vast majority of US military bands are self sufficent as far as administrative work goes. I do know that the premier US Army and Marine Corps Bands have a substantial support staff that minimize the additional duties that are placed on it's members. From Ben Redwine's post it seems that the premier Navy bands work in a different way, and I'm not informed about the premier Air Force ensembles.
To David, sorry that wasn't meant to be directed specifically at you. It just seems insane to me to not take advantage of this, knowing how high the price is for quality performances (or even not so good performances) in major US cities. I lived in DC for about 10 months before I started with the Army Bands, and it was crazy. Between my day/weekend job, teaching at nights, and attending classes as a fulltime graduate student at Catholic University, there wasn't much time. I think I caught one Marine Band chamber ensemble concert and Ricardo Morales with the Leipzig Quartet at the Library of Congress. What was great about those two concerts for me, was they were free(poor grad student), and really beautifully done.
I do understand the traffic situation there is very difficult to live with. In order to get from point A to point B during my time there, I had to drive, even with traffic it was less time consuming as I didn't live near the metro, and it'was unbearable. When I began training for the Army, I said that the only thing that could make it worse than my life in DC was if they put a set of red brake lights by my bed at night.
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-02-22 20:43
Chris, absolutely no offense taken! I understood your point --- quality music should be taken advantage of, and not taken for granted -- even if it's free, it's valuable.
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Author: Gobboboy
Date: 2006-02-23 07:15
Chris,
Thanks ever so much for the insight you have given me to the way America's bands operate.
I have been doing a similar job as you on the other side of the world for the past 18 years!
I find it quiite surreal that you can spend most of your life doing exactly the same job as someone else thousands of miles apart almost completley differently..if that makes any sense at all!?
Thankyou also for the other posts with their info.
Just as a footnote: What has been your favourite 'showpiece' for Clarinet and concert band during your service?
Mine has been the Artie Shaw concerto transcribed for concert band, always goes down a storm!
G
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-02-23 13:51
There is an amazing chart of Klezmer music arranged for the US Army Field Band. I heard SSG Singer (has been with them for a few years). It is a three mvt work and unfortunately I cannot remember the name of it. I'll research a program and get back to you guys.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-02-24 13:19
SOOOOOOOO sorry, that's Staff Sergeant C. Michael Sears and the piece is "A Klezmer Tribute." The military bands are now scanning everthing to there libraries so it may not be too hard to have them send an Adobe of the chart (might help to offer a case of exotic beer to the librarian).
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-02-24 14:19
I usually like to stick to the standards with band for showpieces, and nothing too long. Weber Concertino, Rossini Intro, Theme and Variations and the Rimsky Korsakov Concerto isn't too bad either.
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
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Author: mtague
Date: 2006-02-25 01:26
I've something of an off topic question, though it's still about military musicians. I saw a posting on a different board a couple of weeks go with information for joining an army reserve band. The posting claimed that the band musicians wouldn't be going into combat/war/whatnot. I wanted to know if this is true. I haven't done a ton of research, but from the little I did, the only US military band that I could find that guaranteed no combat was the President's Own, on their website.
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2006-02-25 01:43
Well, Army Reserve musicians (as well as active duty) wouldn't actually engage in "combat". If they were to go 'over there', they'd be providing musical support and may also end up serving in some sort of security/guard duty capacity.
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Author: mtague
Date: 2006-02-26 07:43
Hmm... That's interesting. I think I will go and listen to them and maybe talk with them about their job. It seems interesting. Thank you for answering.
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Author: Gobboboy
Date: 2006-02-26 09:43
mtaque,
Gor for it! you could do a lot worse than a musical life in the forces!
For some reason many people (especially in europe) don't take military musicians seriously...well what a trick they are missing! big time! the 1st Clarinet chair i'm in at the moment has been previously occupied by some truly outstanding musicians who have gone on to win principal positions in some of London's top orchestras. in fact the person I replaced is now touring with the Kirov Ballet. Many many musicians started their careers in the forces, the famous Guitarist Julian Bream started his career in the Royal Artillery Band along with the renown Hornist Alan Civil to name a few..
As Clarinet players we are all too aware of the physical lack of jobs around yet the forces are screaming out for us! after 18 years of doing it I can tell you that I earn a pretty comfortable salary that comes with free medical and dentistry care, and a paid annual holiday of 7-8 weeks a year.
I have been all over the world and have had the opportunity to have played in some of the worlds greatest concert halls, recorded CD's (sometimes as soloist), met royalty and many other famous faces!
I sound like I'm trying to sell you something here! i'm not honest! I'm just trying to say that it's been good to me!
Over the years we see many very talented muscians leaving music college that dont end up playing for a living. Such a waste of a talent, not to mention the four or so years spent mastering their instrument in the first place.
Have a look and have an open mind....
& Good Luck
G
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-02-26 16:23
There was also that guy named Marcel Mule...
A realist appraisal of the potential for a job in instrumental music certainly indicates that the only realistic spot for someone so inclined is in the military.
Face it: there are very few (with a lot of emphasis on the 'very' there) spots for someone who want to play clarinet for a living. Take out teaching music, and you're stuck with the slots in pro organizations (with orchestras limited to four at the very best; more realistically it's two plus two part timers) plus the relative abundance of openings in military bands. ("Studio" work is also there, but just try to break into that closely held clique.)
A military band, with slots no only for five or six clarinets but also with openings for bass (and even alto; doesn't one misguided service use these pariahs?) players AND sax players, offers an excellent opportunity. In addition to the benefits listed above, you also have the opportunity to advance your educational level (with help from your employer). It's not as good as back when I was in, but it's still substantially better than trying to earn a living and attending school at the same time on the outside.
Plus, you can also earn a lot on the side (from your own teaching, a business on the side, and so forth). And, should you be so inclined to join a group that's overseas, there's the possibility for all of that travel that the government (ours here in the USA) always publicizes when trying to get people to join.
That's the good side. Against all of those positives:
• You will not be "your own master". You will have to commit to an enlistment that will keep you "in the OD" for whatever the term of that enlistment. You can't make the decision to move on when a better opportunity is offered, or if you don't like your boss, or if you have "artistic differences" with someone.
• As our military friends have already mentioned, there are people in the military who seem to enjoy making the lives of others a living "heck", if not a hell. The qualities required to make it as an officer or warrant officer are not necessarily the same as those to make it as a musician.
While military bands lead a relatively sheltered life (in effect, the "military" portions of it all is limited to those once or twice a year occasions when the real military infringes on the world of music), the possibility of running into a true martinet (check out the origin of the word for better insight) is always present in the military. In the rest of the world, when you run into such a person, you at least have the option to move on. Not so in the service of your country; not until that enlistment is up.
Being in a military band isn't the same as being in a line infantry unit, but it has some of the same restrictive elements, and you ignore them at your peril (particularly if you are one of those "free spirits" that, even during these non-draft days, sometimes find their way into the military). Some flourish in a military environment; others can't stand it. Some folks aren't aware of their degree of tolerance until they are first exposed. Too bad they don't offer a three month trial...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-02-26 19:21
8 weeks vacation! So, do you have to be a citizen of the U.K.?
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
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Author: Gobboboy
Date: 2006-02-26 20:32
I'm afraid so Chris! - come & join us!!
Work hard - Play hard!!!
G
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-02-26 21:13
Actually, to join the British Army you don't need to be a British (i.e. UK) Citizen. You need to be a resident of the UK or the Irish Republic, and to hold citizenship of the UK, the Irish Republic or a Commonwealth country. The rules for officers are rather stricter than for other ranks. So if you damn Yankees hadn't made the mistake of quitting the Empire back in the eighteenth century, you could all come and join our military bands pretty much right away....... Sorry 'bout that.
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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