 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Richard Salzman
Date: 2006-02-16 22:23
In reference to the "all fingers down" clarion B, this note is particularly stuffy on my Leblanc bass with low C extention when using the left hand pinky,apparently from the insufficiency of leverage on that side.The C above is fine.I am considering a fatter pad on the E/B key but do not want to flatten out the pitch or even cause more stuffiness. Can any physical changes be made to that mechanism to improve pad coverage and a cleaner tone?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-02-16 23:54
Have the venting increased on all the lower keys, this should clear things up (you don't need thicker pads, just reseat the existing ones) - either that or check and clean the speaker vent tube out just to be sure there's nothing building up inside it.
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Author: Richard Salzman
Date: 2006-02-18 02:12
This seems to be a tricky problem. I agree with both Mike and Chris but... the issue seems to be insufficient coverage by the pad on the B/E key.When using just the left hand pinky the resulting sound is dull and of poor projection. Adding the right hand pinky which gives more direct leverage on the key clears up the sound somewhat and then putting additional pressure on that right hand pinky key clears up the sound completely. I took the instrument to my repair man and he chalked up the problem to the basic design flaw in larger instruments with extended key mechanisms, i.e. insufficient leverage. I'm just seeking the old second opinion so to speak.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-02-18 04:08
Richard,
I've often run into similar problems with bass clarinets. I think (with all due respect) you're barking up the wrong tree in messing with the pad. Usually the problem is more subtle --- it's deflection of the left-hand pinky spatula tube, which is long and flimsy on every bass clarinet and, oddly enough, can bend in such a way that if you push on it too hard, it actually causes its pad to lift OFF the tonehole slightly, or the rod can bow out and touch part of the mechanism of another key and lift IT off its seat. This probably doesn't make sense the way I'm trying to explain it, but check it out nonetheless.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-02-18 21:17
Accurate diagnosis of the specific problem is a vital first step. Use a feeler to ascertain exactly WHERE the pad is closing and where it is not. Then work out why. Then deal with it. If that is not your 'thing', then get a GOOD technician to do it. It is very easy to really mess up this area of a bass clarinet, and installing a thicker pad would almost certainly do that.
It could be as David has said - and very difficult to explain because each case is individual, relating to the flexing of the metal in the particular linkages - or could be sloppy pivots, or poor alignment of the pad with the tone hole, as I have described in another thread, "Note Delay".
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=208990&t=208990
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Author: Shorthand
Date: 2006-02-18 23:10
I'm a pretty good do-it-yourselfer on the Bass, but this is one I would definitely take to a good tech after you've checked for the normal loose screws. You need tools you just don't have to diagnose this (feelers, leak lights, etc.)
I find it a little odd that the RH B is different from the LH B - I haven't noticed big differences in leverage between the two keys on most horns. This could easily be some issue with the C/F key as well. If there is an adjustment key between the B/E key and the C/F key, you might try backing that off as that might be what's limiting the pressure you put on the B, but that is the only thing I'd try on my own. Until you get more confidence leave the bending of keys and shimming of corks to someone who really knows what they're doing.
This is not the place where I'd try to beging learning to tinker with my instrument. However, its never too early to find the guy in town who actually is good with Bass Clarinets - ask the players who have been around for a while. They'll know who (s)he is.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-02-18 23:21
"This is not the place where I'd try to beging learning to tinker with my instrument. However, its never too early to find the guy in town who actually is good with Bass Clarinets - ask the players who have been around for a while. They'll know who (s)he is."
Hear, hear!
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Author: Richard Salzman
Date: 2006-02-19 06:33
As to the RH-B vs. the LH-B the only physical explanations I can offer are the fact that LH-B is so much further from the hole being covered that more force is required and that some part of that mechanism is limiting the ability of the key to go all the way down. In any case it is so. these are all good suggestions so far. Thanks.
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Author: Avie
Date: 2006-02-20 00:20
The long Lft pinky C lever arm does not provide sufficient pad pressure because of the long 6-7 inches from the lft pinky finger key to its pad to play as well as any of the keys with a shorter arm and pivot point. Clarinet players know it to be common in many standard sized Bb clarinets. A stronger pivot arm and special pad along with precise adjustment by an excellant tech. or as mentioned above a major functional design on clarinets in general. The rt hand B is harder to reach for some but has a shorter arm to the pad than the Lft hand pinky B which is fuzzier on some clarinets again because of the arm lengths much like the C. Its probably not a coincidence but a good tech could probably solve the problem.
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Author: Shorthand
Date: 2006-02-20 03:55
The problem with this argument for LH B is that most instruments (Bb and bass - AFAIK this includes the LeBlancs - Selmer is the only company that has gone shaft crazy on its basses to keep key inertia down) are designed with the B and C# keys as long beams on a pivot whereas the C is a shaft. The arms are thick and tend to be much stronger than the shafts which tend to function as torsion springs (torsion arms) and give under torque.
Therefore, the problems that plague RH low clarion C don't typically translate the same way for B and C#.
I'm sure there is a perfectly rational explaniation for what Mr. Salzman is experiencing, but given what he's said, I couldn't tell you what it is. I've had issues that had to do with how I was holding my right hand for a RH B as opposed to a LH B (the D key needed shimming, but it only came out in that situation). You never know until you see the situation first hand.
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Author: Richard Salzman
Date: 2006-02-26 05:57
I think I solved it.I removed the two plastic sleeves on the limiting mechanism of the C and B allowing the keys to descend further and clearing the sound. What a relief. Thanks to all.
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