 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-02-14 12:48
Ok, I only did the most cursory check on the web and could not find different size or cut Green Line barrels. Do they exist? Is this yet anther untapped market? Am I looking in the wrong place?
.............help,
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-02-14 13:10
Paul Aviles wrote:
> Ok, I only did the most cursory check on the web and could not
> find different size or cut Green Line barrels. Do they
> exist?
No. The Greenline clarinets come with wooden barrels, at least all I've seen.
> Is this yet anther untapped market?
Considering the great number of different materials already used (wood, plastics, metal) and the difficulty in machining the Greenline material along with the difficulty is obtaining billets of Greenline material (I'm making an assumption - I've not heard of anyone outside of Buffet obtaining any billets) ... I don't think so.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2006-02-14 13:37
I have two greenline barrels (65 and 66) for my RC, they are defintely not made of wood.
On the other hand, I got them 11 years ago when I ws still living in France so they might not make them anymore...
Also, my barrels are "regular" not moennig style.
-S
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-02-14 13:43
Thanks for a couple of quick responses
I have Greenline barrels as well, they are just the standard taper. Seems to me that there should be an effort to appeal to those of us addicted to the Chaddish/Moenig idea.
As for "billets." Is it really that hard to slap some sawdust together with some epoxy?
Let's hear from the Buffet rep.........I lost his card......again.
..........Paul Aviles
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2006-02-14 13:46
I also tried some greenline's about 11 years ago, the barrels are greenline's...
But Paul, why don't you place a wooden Moenig barrel on it??
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2006-02-14 13:51
Have one of the custom dudes make one out of plastic or rubber?
or use an accubore one
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-02-14 13:52
Paul Aviles wrote:
> As for "billets." Is it really that hard to slap some sawdust
> together with some epoxy?
If you think that's all to it then be my guest and try simulating the Greenline material ...
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-02-14 14:11
Sorry, no offense meant to the Greenline concept. I saw a report on PBS some years ago on the eminent extinction of the trees from which we get African Blackwood.........but really, it's not like they have to wait for a shipment of exotic wood or have to age it like wine.
I am using my wooden Moening barrel on th Green Line. Just thought it might be better to have a non-cracking barrel for those "less-than-ideal" situations.
..........Paul Aviles
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-02-14 14:33
Paul Aviles wrote:
> Sorry, no offense meant to the Greenline concept.
No offense taken, but the question still stands - if you think it's that easy to slap some epoxy & wood fibers together and make a barrel, why don't you try it? It's not rocket science the way you described it, and just maybe it'll work out fine. You don't have to get it perfect the 1st time ...
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-02-14 14:49
Does anyone know how they make the Greenline clarinets? Do they make a Greenline material block the same as the wood, and lathe it the same way, or they somehow make it the right size in add the holes by gluing it?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-02-14 15:01
clarnibass wrote:
> Does anyone know how they make the Greenline clarinets? Do they
> make a Greenline material block the same as the wood, and lathe
> it the same way, or they somehow make it the right size in add
> the holes by gluing it?
Essentially the same way - they're bored and drilled, not molded, according to Buffet representatives. I don't know the original shape of the billet.
I do know that the material is much more abrasive on the lathe tools than wood, causing the manufacturing cost to rise somewhat (along with the initial expense of a new production line for the shaping/drilling).
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Author: John Morton
Date: 2006-02-14 16:08
My Greenline came with a 66 mm. barrel of Greenline material, about 5 yrs. ago. My circumstances (mouthpiece? embouchure?) seemed to require a 63 mm. barrel, so I made a Moenig-taper one out of Delrin which sounds wonderful to me. However I probably don't have the ears of you folks with experience of many more instruments.
A precise object made from composite materials may well be molded, but the ultimate dimensions and surface finish still require that the piece be machined over it's entire surface. The reasons for molding it would be: 1) to save machine time by starting with hollow bore; 2) to lay up a fiber structure in the axial direction for strength. The latter sounds like a great idea to me, but as near as I can tell the Greenlines use an amorphous substance without directional carbon fiber strands. My repair guy bored for a replacement tenon at the mid joint, and agreed that the material seemed to have no structure. Directional reinforement may have saved my clarinet from snapping when I knocked it over ...
John Morton
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Author: sdr
Date: 2006-02-14 23:48
My 2 yr-old Greenline R13 came w/ a 66mm Greenline barrel. I assume a "normal" R13 taper. Sounds good to me, but I confess I have not sought to try others.
-sdr
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-02-15 13:53
hmmm....what's a normal R13 taper barrel. My impression is the stock Buffet bbl for an R13 has no (intentional) taper. And that the Buffet Moenig bbl as a Moennig taper.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Shorthand
Date: 2006-02-15 13:58
Can the custom barrell makers source ABS resin, or perhaps a hard rubber barrel blank?
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-02-15 14:22
Someone alerted me to this thread.
To answer the above, "Yes"
I would be interested in the experience of Walt or Morrie as well. I hear Clark Fobes and Pyne have nice synthetics and perhaps they can check in on this. Springer synthetics are highly reguarded also. I think Scott uses Delrin.
I have made barrels of Delrin rods and of rod rubber.
I liked the rubber one very much!! I am not at liberty to disclose much more about it.
Delrin was ok, and the finished product is commercially available from other barrel artisans. It is not my fav. item to work with.
FWIW I have used epoxy and other glues, incl. CA. I do not like to lathe them because of the fumes. I have used resins mixed with mpingo shavings for minor fills in other applications, but I have not fashioned a barrel in this manner.
Disclaimer....I make/sell barrels.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-02-15 14:24
I imagine they bake the Greenline material in a big ol' press - not something to try at home. And if I'd made a composite out of sawdust that appeared to work almost as well as the real thing, I'd be keeping the technology and the billets close to my chest, too.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-02-15 16:10
Can't a stock R13 Greenline barrel be bored up or altered to a Moennig or Chadash taper?
I know someone with a few Greenline barrels languishing in a drawer, and I doubt they'll see the light of day for a long while. But surely if anyone has access to a Greenline barrel at a good price there's always the possibility of sending them to someone in the know to do their magic on them.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-02-15 19:20
My greenline came with greenline barrels of standard taper, as mentioned by many others on this thread. I used a wooden mouthpiece and a wooden Moennig tapered barrel on it. That gave it a warmer and fuller tone and I found no problem whatsoever with using the mix.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-02-15 19:26
You can NOT bore a standard barrel to Moennig or Chadash dimensions ....BUT you can bore it out wider and then place an INSERT into it and then bore the insert to the proper size.
Chadash does that. If you find a standard Greenline barrel, you can send it to him for a makeover.
disclaimer...usual yada yada
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-02-15 20:23
"....BUT you can bore it out wider and then place an INSERT into it and then bore the insert to the proper size."
I should have mentioned the possibility of that where I said 'altered' - I had that in mind, but not put in words.
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Author: sdr
Date: 2006-02-16 01:59
Earlier in this thread were some comments about general quality of Greenlines. Note that if a blackwood billet is turned and bored for an R13 and just doesn't come out right, it can always drop down as an E11 or a student model. Greenlines only appear at R13, RC, Prestige, etc. -- there is no use for a Greenline that is anything less than R13 quality. I have heard that, therefore, extra time and care are taken to get the bore right during Greenline production. Perhaps M. Kloc can confirm this lore?
-sdr
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-02-16 02:22
As the Greenline composite is of a consistant quality (as opposed to grenadilla which is variable), I imagine there's less chance of finding the usual flaws (worm holes or cracks) that grenadilla has and are only evident when turned down to size - only grenadilla that has serious flaws that can't be filled or hidden is scrapped as a useable joint and probably ends up pulverised and turned into Greenline if it can't be salvaged and used for an E13 instead.
I don't know if the Buffet factory supplies Schreiber with factory second body joints for E11 clarinets, but I imagine thet don't.
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