 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-02-10 19:15
Attachment: OldMpc.jpg (32k)
I came across an old, pardon: vintage, hard rubber clarinet that had an equally-old mouthpiece. The cork had been replaced by duct tape, and after cleaning up the whole mess I discovered something like thread grooves (all other stuff I dealt with - besides that infamous Indian clarinet - was just 'plain' beneath the cork).
Is that something special or of a specific era, or is there just a fifty-fifty chance you pick up a mouthpiece of one or the other sort?
I'm just curious.
--
Ben
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2006-02-10 19:20
I've seen threaded in new stuff. Don't particularly care to tear the cork off my current mp to confirm this, but I think my 2002 Hawkins is threaded.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-02-10 20:13
I've recorked a number of mp tenons, as I recall only the more expensive mps have machined-threaded? tenons. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-02-10 20:17
I've seen many in both smooth- and ribbed-tenon styles, from various eras. I'm not sure any conclusions can be drawn from the presence or absence of the ribs -- which are there to help the cork adhere better (the ribs are no longer necessary with modern adhesives).
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2006-02-11 12:28
Same requirement for gluing together pieces of wood... if the surfaces are perfectly smooth, the glue will flow out of the joint, and the connection fails.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2006-02-11 18:17
It is my understanding that grooved tenons are a carryover from bygone days when wrapping tenons with thread was common practice. It gave a footing/purchase so the thread wouldn't "bunch up" when pushing the sections together. However, grooved tenons are no hinderance to attaching cork with glue; hence, no reason for manufacturers to change their machining setups. Present day smooth tenons are both economical, production-wise, and work very well with today's method of attaching cork with contact cement. Grooved or plain, tenons are one of the least causes for concern for any woodwind instrument.
This info *could* be incorrect but, either way, grooves aren't detrimental to anything.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-02-12 05:29
I assumed it may have something to do with better adherence for shellac used as a cork glue, such practice being now pretty well obsolete.
Some manufacturers continue to use grooves, but I have no idea why, unless that manufacturer thinks they need it when they use a relatively unsuitable glue such as hot-melt (glue-gun).
(A lathe in mass production can do the grooves in a few seconds, and application of hot-melt glue is readily automated, but using contact glue well, tends to need a lot more personal attention)
If the surfaces are cleaned, and a good CONTACT-adhesive is used, any grooves are totally unnecessary to aid bonding.
A customer of mine asked a prominent top (British) manufacturer why they did a certain thing. The answer was that they always had done.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-02-12 14:00
Some people believe the grooves increase the surface area for the cork to go onto, even with contact adhesives - but that's only the case if the underside of the cork is grooved as well which is highly unlikely.
The cork just sits on the top of the peaks so there's less surface area for the cork to adhere to, so I believe when using contact adhesives (Evo-Stik) it's best to have a comletely flat and smooth surface (as well as being degreased) - grooves are indeed unnecessary.
Some B&H clarinets had completely flat tenon recesses, as well as a lot of plastic clarinets.
Does anyone still use shellac for sticking tenon corks on with? I hope not - it's a bugger to remove, and the shellac chippings can get in your eyes when scraping it all off.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-02-13 17:31
I have an HS* mouthpiece from the 1920's or 30's that I regularly use, and it has the machined "ridges" on the mating surface. It is harder to get a cork to stay in place, but once installed and clamped down while the cement cures, the attachment lasts for several years...good enough in my eyes.
The other HS* mouthpieces I have do not have the ridges. The "groove" for the cork is as smooth as glass. And, as mentioned above, contact cement will stick better to a flat surface than it will to a grooved one.
The other difference between them is that (on the modern ones) the inscription of the mouthpiece lay is on the front of the mouthpiece under the Selmer logo, while on the vintage one it is engraved at the end of the lay itself, next to the top ring on the barrel.
It also plays better than the modern ones, except for a copy that I had made about twenty years ago. Something had changed, and (in my case, at least) it was for the better.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-02-13 18:33
I'll have to dig out my early '50s Selmer Table A (that came with my old CT set) to see how that compares to my M15 - I used to use that with Vandoren Black and White Master reeds as the facing was narrow compared to modern Selmer mouthpieces, and standard Vandorens overlap the side rails.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-02-13 18:47
I must admit that I agree about contact cement working well on a flat surface. That is true whether the flat surface is the top flat of an irregular surface such as an Acme thread or a flat surface without any grooves.
I do feel that the depressed grooves in some mouthpiece corking areas helps prevent the oozing out of any kind of adhesive and thus represents an advantage of an otherwise obsolete practice.
Bob Draznik
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