 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jacqui
Date: 2006-02-07 20:12
Hi everyone. I'm wondering what everyone's opinion is on a 42 year old trying to learn how to play clarinet for the first time. I played for a couple of years in grade school and haven't had any experience with music of any kind since. I started taking private clarinet lessons 11 months ago and i'm having a heck of a time retaining everything in my old brain!! Is playing music something you need to start at a young age to ever become a decent player? I do enjoy it very much and faithfully practice every night, but i'm wondering if i'll ever get any better. My goal is to some day (may in the next year) become a good enough clarinetist to join a community band. What are your thoughts?
Jacqui
Feeling old and slow in Wisconsin
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Author: glin
Date: 2006-02-07 20:48
While I don't think it's impossible-I do think there are many factors at play that will make it a longer process.
Here's what I think makes it hard for an adult beginner vs a youngster:
1)muscle reflexes or hand-eye coordination is harder to develop or slower.
2)many adults have work/family schedule that makes it hard to develop daily practicing.
3)Learning to do something "new" when we're older takes a while. Don't have any evidence - just my own experiences. There may be studies that support my statement and there may be studies that don't. Just an observation. Younger minds are easier to mold!
If you enjoy playing, keep on doing it. Sit down with your teacher and develop goals over time to progress. He or she is the best person to be able to help you improve and offer advice/encourgagement.
It may take longer than you would like, but that's how it is for most of us.
Good luck!
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Author: 'nother friggin' canadian
Date: 2006-02-07 21:03
Hi Jacqui,
What is it exactly that you're having trouble retaining?
Here's my story. I picked up electric guitar when I turned 40. I'm now 47 and I think I've become a pretty decent guitar player, doing a lot of jazz now. I'm not of professional calibre, but I can certainly hold my own among amatuer guitarists chops wise and can do a pretty fair job of improvising over chord changes (granted, guitarists are usually notoriously lacking in formal musical training and theory, so I feel I have an advantage for playing over changes). So I certainly don't think that at 42, you're too old.
However, it souds like there may be a key difference between us in that I studied music quite seriously in my youth on both clainet (obviously) and Royal Conservatory piano. I've also kept music going as a hobby into my adult years. So, for me, tacklling guitar at 40 was a matter of mastering a new instrument, rather than trying to learn both the rudiments of music and an instrument at the same time. Thus, my initial question, where are you having trouble?
Cheers, Brian
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Author: charlie_star_uk
Date: 2006-02-07 21:03
hi!
it is great that you are learning! but try not to worry!!!!
one of the main things i find with older students is that they are extremely self critical and aware of their standard... and this can sometimes hold back their progress by being scared of playing wrong notes or not having the best sound etc...
with young students they tend to just turn up each week, go home and practise (if you're lucky) then come back the next week and play to you, often without a thought about whether they have improved... and miraculously it happens (well, hopefully it has something to do with the teacher and the students work!!)
try working towards goals but not worry about improvement...and don't be scared of squeaking etc... the best way to learn not to squeak is to squeak a lot!!! and learn what made it happen... with regular playing progress will happen... trust your teacher for that.
have fun is the main aim!!!
charlie
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-02-07 21:11
We are not too old to learn.
BUT, we may be disadvantaged compared to the potential of young minds. I think many things can be more effectively be learned by young minds. Physical things like athletics, dexterity. Paul Elvstrom felt that one could not possibly become an olympic-level competitor in sailing if s/he didn't start before 12 years of age.
STILL, we can learn.
I'm re-entering clarinetting after a 30+ year break. I find myself struggling to get my fingers around these new alternative altissimo fingerings, and often wonder if I am getting anywhere --if I'm wasting my teacher's time with my slow learning.
But, last week, I got a book of "caprices" for sight reading (and perhaps a selected few for some serious work.) It was great, I could read much better than I did a couple of months ago when I got my last batch of sight reading workouts.
bob
Bob Phillips
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Author: ron b
Date: 2006-02-07 21:16
Compared to some folks around here who started playing a musical instrument as an adult, Jacqui, you're still a kid.
Personally, my opinion is that I think it's wonderful you're taking up music. And, I'm really delighted to learn that you chose the clarinet [again] to do so 
Technically, if you played anything at all in grade school, step over this way. You belong with us "re-treads". We may take a little longer to 'get it' the way younger folks do but once we've go it, it tends to stay with us longer... something about maturity and stuff. The problem lots of re-starts have is trying so hard to retain every little thing. You don't need to do that. Absorb the essentials a bit at a time and the rest will fall into place as you go along. Have FUN with the music and the details will take care of themselves. Your teacher will keep you from falling into difficult-to-recover-from (bad) habits so that playing will be fun rather than strenuous.
I know lots of folks, young and not so young, who're playing in groups after only a few lessons and practicing twenty minutes or so a day. Don't feel blue, community bands are filled by people just like you. You'll be in great company.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: jacqui
Date: 2006-02-07 21:28
I have no prior experience with music, but my mother and sisters are quite musically inclined - if that counts. While singing i was once told by a FORMER friend that i couldn't carry a tune if i had a bucket. My problem now seems mainly to be remembering correct fingering and the names of the notes. My instructor tells me my tone has improved a lot, and i never really did have a problem with squeaking, but trying to remember the fingering for a F or G is frustrating. I can read the music without a problem, by that i mean I see the note and usually know the correct fingering, but 9 times out of 10 i couldn't tell you what the note is. Also, when practicing, my instructor has me first warming up by playing long (8 count ) notes then playing scales then on to the lessons in the book. I spend most of my practice sessions at home trying to memorize the scale i'm learing that week. Is it absolutely nesessary to memorize scales? Actually, i've already forgotten the first 7 scales I memorized and only know the one i'm currently working on (which i think is Ab major, but i can't remember for sure). Maybe I should try Ginko for my memory.
Jacqui
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-02-07 21:32
Hehe, Jacqui, one's never too old for anything (well, okay, some things come to mind, but...). Being so impatient you just demonstrated your juvenile temperament.
Heck, I'm 42 too, started last September, have lessons since November. Last musical experience - besides a certain virtuosity on grammophone - was alto recorder some 30 years ago.
I diligently practice maybe half an hour to an hour each day and my teacher is is happy. (he doesn't even say "...given your age..." )
There are soo many things to think of, and to be frank I just concentrate on one thing at a time. Today I practiced staccatos/tongueing. Tomorrow I'll do some sight reading. By Friday I must master unit 13 in the Wastall book. One step at a time, one or maybe two units a week.
Yep, it takes time. Pesky fingers. Too many eigth notes. Too many bs, too many #s. Not to mention the unlogic fingering... Yet we progress. I do, and you do too.
Don't know about the community band you're dreaming of. I'm sure there's a seat for someone who happily starts with some oompa-pah backing support or the c# squeak every so often. Best bet is to contact someone from the band and tell them who you are, what you want, and what they want.
What - for me - counts most is that it makes me happy. It empties my head (I consider it a loud sort of yoga) and I enjoy every minute. That is not an age thing, nor is it a skills thing. It's a pursuit of happiness in 26 inches.
You'll do it.
--
Ben
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Author: jacqui
Date: 2006-02-07 21:42
Thanks for all of your replies. I'm leaving the office to go home and practice, practice, practice. Even if i never join a band, my black lab, Baxter likes my playing. He sings and sings every night when i practice. My husband thinks he's howling, but i prefer to think he's singing.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-02-07 22:00
Hi Jacqui - Fine comments above, they pretty well "cover ther Waterfront". I'm twice your age [plus a couple of years] and still consider "its a good day when I learn something new". Yes, join a community band, start as a 3rd cl'ist and listen/play/work up to greater glory. Some 20+ years ago I started band on Bb sop., bot a bass cl, worked it up quite well, am now "training" a sax player to play B Cl, and playing/working-up a pro Alto cl, having much fun and musical experience along the way. Go for it ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: SuperPat
Date: 2006-02-07 23:05
Hi Jacqui,
I am another re-beginner. I was given a clarinet for my 47th birthday 3 1/2 years ago.
I had other musical experiences as a young adult which made me a fairly good sight-reader (in treble clef). But I'm finding alot of other challenges with this wind instrument.
I started in a community band after one year playing. It is our local New Horizons Band. If you are not familiar with New Horizons check out this website:
Pat
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Author: SuperPat
Date: 2006-02-07 23:17
Hi Jacqui,
I am another re-beginner. I was given a clarinet for my 47th birthday 3 1/2 years ago.
When I practice I make progress.
I started in a community band after one year playing. It is our local New Horizons Band. If you are not familiar with New Horizons check out this website: http://www.newhorizonsmusic.org/nhima.htm, maybe there is a band near you too.
After two years I started playing in the band with our local community college too.
I have no doubt that playing with these groups has moved me along faster than I would have otherwise.
Pat
Pat
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2006-02-07 23:52
Your goal should be achievable. My story is much like yours except I came back at 48 years old. It took me nine years to reach a level that I felt ready to audition for a community band, but I've been in it for four years now.
In my case it seems to take about twice as long to progress as the talented high school and college students, but I'm enjoying every minute of it.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-02-08 00:48
Jacqui,
Your comments on remembering your scales, note names and fingerings got me right between the shoulder blades. I'm having the same problems --only with the altissimo notes. That augmented 5th above middle C has been driving me nuts. I can now recognize the notes floating up there on all those ledger lines and make some kind of fingering attempt at them as they go fleeting by.
Yes, it is necessary to be really good with your scales. The fingerings chosen for a given sequence of notes varies with key signature and note sequence. You have a head start on playing the music if you inner soul (not that sneaky short term memory) recognizes your situation and AUTOMAICALLy brings forth all of those practice moves.
You need to practice scales in thirds and broken chords along with your scales. I suggest that you chip a tooth on the BIG BULLET. Buy a copy of Carl Baermann's method book; and play all of the exercises in the book for each key: the scale, the arpeggios (broken chords), scales in thirds.
Be ready for the challenge. These exercise cover the whole range of the instrument AND you finger them differently depending on context. Get your teacher to go over each exercise and make sure that you are using the best fingerings.
They will start to stick after a few weeks.
If you are in the neighborhood, take time to play some duos with me!
ENJOY the challenge.
Bob Phillips
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Author: b.roke
Date: 2006-02-08 01:51
hi - i'm 53 and started from scratch last year. i have experienced enornous amounts of pleasure, frustration, pride, annoyance, satisfaction and squeaks.
the process is the thing. i enjoy the challenge, and joy of the occassional achievements. but every up has a down just as every down has an up.
it's working for me and it sounds like it's working for you too. i may never play in public, but then again....
and i wish i had your advantages in experience and age!
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Author: seafaris
Date: 2006-02-08 03:26
I am 58 years old and just started 2 years ago. My business is in Mexico and I have no access to an instructor. I had no music background except for my love of jazz and standards. My wife has been playing off and on for 40 years and has been a great help. I also had to learn to read music. At first I wanted to just play for my own entertainment, bought a few fake jazz books and played songs that I liked. I then bought a program called Band in a box. I now have someone to play with! The main thing is that as I progressed did this I became more serious and I am having a ball. I go to jazz festivals in the summers when I am in the states visiting. I listen to a lot of music and I feel that I am developing a style. I have a few friends I play with every once in awhile, but my band is always there. I usually play 1 to 1 1/2 hours a day. Some times I don't feel that I am improving, then I try a song that was in the past hard for me and discover that it is a lot easier. If I am not having the best day with my fingering, I work on tone, or style. I just don't worry about it. The main thing is not to put pressure on yourself. Have fun! My wife has belong to various community bands and thinks it is the greatest.
Best of luck!
....Jim
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Author: Mike S
Date: 2006-02-08 08:10
I'm extremely heartened by all these posts. My story is pretty similar - 2 extremely disintererested years as a teenager, far keener in outdoor pursuits, then nearly 40 years in the clarinet wilderness. I dug it out just before Christmas '05 with the intention of playing a couple of simple duets with my daughter who has just started the sax, and I'm hooked! New instrument, mouthpiece, lessons, ....and lots of practice. I know if my daughter did half the amount of practice I did, she would progress at twice the speed, but I can see huge improvements in my own playing week by week. I've no idea where this will take me, but the journey of discovery is wonderful and were it not for the fact she is teaching at an all girls school, my clarinet teacher says she would show me off to her other pupils, most of whom are probably where I was 40 years ago. Maybe she is just being encouraging...but it is working.
I should also say that this bulletin board is a terrific source of information and encouragement, so long may it continue.
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Author: Simon
Date: 2006-02-08 23:41
I started playing clarinet at the age of 22/23 and even then I thought I was too old, how silly I was. I had lessons and even at that age I lacked confidence and never got out of my littlle circle, always wanted to be perfect. Since then I have been practicing on and off. I will be turning 41 in few days time and I am very dissapointed with not achieving my dream, joining a band was my dream. How fast time has gone.
Now that I have achieved my other personal goals, I plan to get back into it and may be i will finaly realise my dream, of course with alot of hard work.
The point I am making is not to hold back, don't try to be perfectionist and you must break the ice, make mistakes and get over the embarrassment.
Just practice and do join a band.
Simon
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2006-02-08 23:50
All great stories above.
If I may add one more thing, come to this bboard from time to time , ask your questions and learn from many brillant clarinetists and webmasters.
Good luck to you.
Lucy Lee Jang
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-02-09 13:40
I started playing guitar when I was 40. I'm very glad I didn't think I was too old then because I really would have thought so fifteen years later. I was motivated and I found it to be quite a wonderful adventure. It isn't necessary to attain concert readiness...just enough to enjoy yourself. I did, however, get a good instrument (a Martin) because my son (the expert) told me it would make all the difference. And, no, he doesn't have the Martin now--I still play it.
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Author: corks&pads
Date: 2006-02-09 14:45
I'm trying to word this example delicately, but I relate older adults learning to play musical instruments to an old joke in which She asked He, "Who do you expect to please with THAT?!!" ... and He replied, "Me!"
Play for your own pleasure first, even if you enjoy the process more than the result at first. If you do that, you'll eventually get to where others can enjoy it as much as you. Unless you live 'way out in the sticks, you'll probably be able to find others in your same status who will encourage and tolerate your level of growing ability. If not, start a group. (And if you do live 'way out in the sticks, sit on the porch and wail away proudly!)
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2006-02-09 15:02
There is even a web site devoted to the issues adults face as music beginners. It is mostly focused on piano, but relates to any instrument.
http://www.musicalfossils.com/
johng
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-02-10 12:08
Count me as another "retread." I'm 57. As a child, I played clarinet and alto clarinet in public school music programs, played the recorder a bit on my own, and took piano lessons. I "quit forever" because of stage fright when I was 18, and didn't start playing anything again until I was over 40. I had a lot of catching up to do, but found the experience too interesting to resist!--and began neglecting all sorts of other things to find time to practice. Meanwhile, I started as a beginner on saxophone. (I even tried to teach myself flute and cornet, although I decided to quit those two while still in the beginner phase--I couldn't juggle that many different things.) As adults, we may learn more slowly than kids do, but I think we have the advantage of patience.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: chipper
Date: 2006-02-10 13:38
Jacqui:
I'm 50 with two (count 'em) years of lessons. Absolutly no experience before that. Our community band was gracious enough to let me sit third chair last fall. We did a series of Christmas concerts, mostly stuff I was familar with. I blew every other note, perhaps. The strings of half notes came easy, strings of sixteenths were impossible. But I started to get it. well, some anyway. We're now practicing for our spring and summer series and the other night at practice I'm playing along and notice the other third, my mentor, sitting back, not playing, just grinning from ear to ear at me. WOW! The other thing I'm noticing is that the band director's instruction on how the piece should feel is much different than the private instructor. This really helps with the dynamics. "Punch this out" or "smokey and breathy" or however he wants us to play. Really gets you in the mood and that's important.
I've found that it is almost impossible to practice the third part without the band. I'll work on passages and runs but not the whole piece. Then do scales, arpegios and I got a book called "The Progressing Clarinetist" which combines them into tunes. It really works.
So keep at it. All the folks I've met through this are great people.
C
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Author: jacqui
Date: 2006-02-10 14:20
I sure am glad I found this site. Thanks for all your encouraging words, and Corks&Pads - "Who do you expect to please with that?" very funny!! I've learned a lot from all of you in just one post - i'm going to try hard not to be so critical of my playing and just have more fun with it. My nightly practice sessions are an escape from life's ups and downs and even if it never goes further than that, that's a blessing in and of itself. Oh yeah - and thanks for the fossils website. It's awesome.
Jacqui
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