 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bigno16
Date: 2006-01-30 18:31
I was just thinking this today when practicing because I feel like my tongue is often very tense and forceful instead of quick and light.
When putting the tongue in the 'eee' or 'hee' position and keeping it there, which is required for fast intense airflow and the best tongue placement for tonguing and articulation, doesn't doing so tense the muscles of the tongue?
And if it does, doesn't that contradict that the tongue must be relaxed? Or does the tip of the tongue stay free while the back of the tongue is tensed?
Any thoughts on this?
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Author: lowclarinetman
Date: 2006-01-30 18:56
When using the "eee" vocalization only the back part of the tounge should move. The tip of the tounge should not move or be tense.
I am also of the idea that the back of the tounge should not be tense either. When moving from an "ahhh" vocalization to the "eee" vocalization the only thing that should be changing is the position of the tounge, not tension within the tounge.
Think about it like moving a finger. You can bend or straighten your finger as much as you like without any unnatural tension appearing in your finger. You can also move your finger so that there is a lot of tension in your finger. But your finger cannot move cleanly or rapidly when there is a lot of tension in it, neither can your tounge.
hope this helps some
bob hoit
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2006-01-31 00:19
Through experimentation and reading Keith Stein's book 'The Art of Clarinet Playing', Ridenour's Educator's Guide to the Clarinet, David Pino's book, and an interview with Robert Marcellus, I believe that the tongue should be as relaxed as possible BUT with the back part of it being high, so that the air stream is concentrated but not 'constricted'. I have been working on keeping my throat and oral cavity as relaxed as possible (not forcing open though) when I play. I have realized that I used to tense up when "switching to clarinet-playing mode" and that I really should be changing as few things as possible to go from total relaxation to playing clarinet. Of course some muscles are going to have to become tense. That's how our bodies move in any way. We only need to learn to control which areas are tense, how much, and when, and which areas are to remain relaxed.
fwiw,
-Tyler
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-01-31 08:13
I don't get this 'fast airflow' thing. The speed at the mouthpiece remains the same, right?
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2006-02-01 00:56
Bassie,
Let's use a water hose as an example. When you take off the nozzle and turn the water on, the water comes out at a pressure or rate that makes it go out only 2 to 3 feet depending upon how open the turn on valve is set. Now, what happens when you turn off the water, put the nozzle back on and turn the water valve back on to the same position it was originally. Depending upon the setting or focus of the nozzle, the water will shoot out anywhere from 20 to 30 feet or more in distance. The more you adjust the nozzle or focus the water, the water shoots out its greatest distance. Start opening the nozzle or loosing up the focus and the water stream gets shorter and shorter in distance. The speed of the water depends upon the setting of the nozzle or how focused the water is.
I believe the relaxed, arched tongue is performing a similar function with the air you breathe out.
Why do we need a focused airstream? An interesting experiment you might want to try is with a tuner. Play an open "G" with your tongue fully pulled down in a very open position and note the reading on the meter. While you're still producing this tone, bring your tongue up to where the outer edges of the tongue just feel your upper molars. As you bring your tongue up with your embouchure staying the same, you will probably notice that the needle of the tuner is also moving up. I have personally observed this and I believe this is the reason many beginners play "flat" when first starting to play the clarinet. Another reason for using a focused air stream is that, IMO, the upper clarion and altisimo notes are all but impossible to bring out cleanly unless the tongue is arched.
Mimicking an "eee" sound while playing seems to place the tongue automatically in the right position. When you produce an "ahh" sound, the tongue is lowered away from touching the upper molars.
The above are strickly my opinions and observations. I hope these explanations have been helpful to you.
Post Edited (2006-02-01 01:04)
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-02-01 07:11
Dan, thanks.
I think I see what you mean: one of the roles of the tongue is to 'match' the airflow to the instrument. A nozzle too small, or too big, won't make much of a splash.
But I think the greater role is in the support of the air column feeding the instrument. You're right: place the tongue wrong, and the tuning is wrong. Eventually you can learn to gliss a long way with this. A loose embouchure can play in tune if the tongue is just right. The air doesn't just vibrate in the mouthpiece baffle chamber and bore, but in the player's head.
My point is that I'm not sure 'fast airflow' is entirely a good way to think about the problem. I prefer to think of a column of air supporting the column of air in the instrument. If the instrument is the wrong shape, how well will it play? If the supporting column is the wrong shape, how long will the whole thing stay standing? It starts somewhere in your belly (or in your toes on bass).
The problem is I can feel when it's right, but it's hard to describe.
I think it's a good idea to experiement with different 'vowel sounds' driving the instrument, and try and hear the difference, rather than get hung up on holding the tongue in a prticular shape. It should feel natural, not choking. In many ways the clarinet is an extension of the voice. I don't mean you hum down it (obviously!) but that some of the things that come naturally to the voice can be extended to drive the clarinet: like tongue placement.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-02-01 11:20
Bassie wrote:
>> My point is that I'm not sure 'fast airflow' is entirely a good way to think about the problem.>>
'Fast airflow' is just a metaphor. Further, it's a metaphor far removed from the physics of the situation, as my post about the 'hippopotamus' shows (among other things):
http://www.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/1998/12/000764.txt
(the ascii picture is screwed up in this link by the web interface, sorry.)
>> The air doesn't just vibrate in the mouthpiece baffle chamber and bore, but in the player's head.>>
Quite right.
Tony
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-02-01 13:54
I wrote:
>> Further, it's a metaphor far removed from the physics of the situation..>>
By this, I didn't mean to say that the air doesn't flow faster through a narrower channel -- clearly it does. However, the (very low) speed involved is not what is crucial for the acoustics, which is concerned with what the channel does to sound waves.
Tony
Post Edited (2006-02-01 13:55)
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-02-06 12:30
Tony -
Just read your 'hippopotamus' post - most excellent and fascinating!
I'm going to have to go away now and think about the physics of the situation some more. I wonder if it has anything to do with the clarinet being a half-pipe resonator, 'open' at one end and 'closed' at the other (and hence overblowing the odd harmonics). Can we think of the body as the other half of the pipe? Is this the real explanation of the riddle of clarinet 'support'? And what would that tell us about sax technique? Or Bass?
Was the 'remote-clarinet' box lined with sound-dampening material, or was it a lively resonator?
On a related note:
Do you think Satchmo's virtuosity tells us something about brass instruments? :-D
Post Edited (2006-02-06 12:50)
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