 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: chipper
Date: 2005-10-25 16:28
So on the first night I asked the player next to me how I could get copies of the music so I could practice at home. He said, "we practice here every Monday night." as if that would be enough. Turns out he's been playing since 1948. That explains it. But the band leader was kind enough to copy the 3'rd clarinet part for the Christmas music. I picked it up the next evening and dilligently sat down each night to learn my part. I was feeling fairly well prepared (couple of rifs I figured I'd simply sit out) and went into my second practice full of confidence. The band was assembled, the director up front and his wife on second clarinet. So he asks her for the envelope with the Christmas music....."but honey, I thought you had it, must have left it at home." I could feel the raw fear seeping into my bones, slowly at first then rising like a tsunami. I knew then I was doomed to the deer in the headlights feeling of last week. So I took a deep breath and a sip of water and vowed to play what I could by sight. And I did. Some of the passages were just way over my head, eight and sixteenth note riffs with accidentals, but a lot of the stuff I think I actually did OK on. I had a ball. One piece went from a Latin rhythm to a swing. How cool is that? The fabric of the music was so rich with different harmonies and rhythms, many times different but all working toward the goal of one sound. To be a thread (albiet a tattered one) in that fabric is the biggest thrill I've had since lead climbing a 3 pitch 5.9 climb in the Gunks! Even watching my children being born I felt like a spectator. This music stuff makes me feel like a part of a much larger community. For me this is an emotional persuit, one in which I need the technical expertise to accomplish my goals. I will become techincally competent for that reason. For those of you who have made it this far in this monologue I hope I've infected you with the joy I'm feeling. Isn't that the purpose of music, the joy?
Play well and often
Carl (my real name)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-10-25 16:50
Very nice commentary, Carl, It sounds just like a "happy marriage". Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2005-10-25 16:52
Community bands are an interesting phenomenon and not for the faint of heart. After a 27 year break I jointed a community band and the variances you find in talent, work ethic, and motivation are staggering. The second year I always took my alto, tenor, and bari sax because you never can be sure who will show up. In the Jazz ensemble I bring copies of all five sax folders just to make sure we get the parts covered.
Sometimes I have to jump in on a solo when the assigned player misses his queue. One time the soloist just started coughing, so I played the solo hardly missing a beat. You live for those moments. I often play first chair but I am not always the best player. I strive to be consistent and trustworthy. Maybe someday I’ll play as well as Sonny Rollins or Boney James. Until that day, I just try to be uber competent and reliable.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-10-25 18:22
Interesting, Gandalfe, much like my "low" clarinet playing, mainly bass, but lately more than usual alto cl [per se], and playing bassoon cues, bari sax cues, at times 3 or 4th horn/trombone and Eng. Horn parts as needed. It sure has helped my transposition "abilities" from Eb to Bb and v.v.. I do enjoy the occasional solos, and surprised looks "where did that come from??" I'm sure I need a contra-alto cl also !! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2005-10-25 21:43
Lucky me, just (4 months) entered a supurb community band.
This weekend we played some kind of tournament with 80 members.
Almost complete setting (± 20 clarinets, 2 bass clarinet,1 Eb, 7 flutes, hobo, english horn, 3 bassoons, 4 french horns, full brass, 6 percussion,....), mainly non-pro's.
This is truly a fantastic hobby we have, and it feels absolutely great performing with such a fantastic orchestra.
You'll find us on www.harmonie-schelle.net, but only in Dutch.
Have a look at picture from 'klankkleur' the yearly 'show concert'
Post Edited (2005-10-25 21:43)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-10-25 22:18
Gosh, Belg Cl, truly a fantastic orch/band, you've got my Tulsa C B beat by 20-30 players, similar in quality. My own curiousity, is your Eb an alto or soprano? Yes, its just great fun making good sounds with good players. What a fine web-site you have, we could take lessons. Don.
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-10-25 22:56
Awesome Carl. GREAT feeling, isn't it? It's great when you hear how you actually fit in and you hear yourself harmonizing with another part.
Alexi
PS - I love that "thread in the fabric" expression. Haven't heard it before, but I'm gonna bank that one away for future rhetoric!
US Army Japan Band
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2005-10-26 16:25
Don,
The Eb is a Soprano, don't have/need alto's.
During the tournament there was a alto-solo, but could be played on Bass. Most of the time the Alto has not really an independent role in most music for wind band written in Belgium/Holland
PS. on the web site, it's made by 2 Clarinet players (not me) that are 'professional software geeks' in there 'free' non music time :-)
Post Edited (2005-10-26 16:40)
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Author: Steve B.
Date: 2005-10-27 16:53
Carl,
I'll give you a couple more hints for community band rehearsals.
1. Be on time with a pencil in hand.
2. When in doubt, leave it out. .....unless it is a very a exposed passage
In that case, practice practice practice (at home, not at rehearsal)
3. Keep your place. (Count your rests silently and don't fake the section into an early entrance.) When you do make an entrance, do so with confidence. (Don't sneak in) Keep in mind that the different clarinet parts may not always be playing in rhythmic unison.
4. Keep time by tapping your toes inside your shoe.
5. Try not to have private conversations with your neighbors.
(bad rehearsal etiquette)
6. Be careful not to hang over any Grand pauses, and do not add any extra notes at the end of a march. (Not all marches have an extra stinger at the end)
7. Follow the conductor carefully for tempo/meter changes. ( 1 eye on the music, 2 eyes on the conductor)
8. Try to learn your rhythms perfectly. No one will miss a wrong accidental
on a fast run. The rhythm is more important.
9. Always check your key signature, and circle key changes.
10. Watch your intonation, and try to blend with your section.
11. Have Fun, enjoy performing, and learn from your peers.
Steve
Post Edited (2005-10-27 18:24)
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Author: Michelle
Date: 2005-10-27 17:04
I second the "always have a pencil" suggestion. My stand-partner learned the hard way that our band librarian doesn't appreciate his copious "notes to self" in red pen on original music. (ouch!)
Michelle
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2005-10-27 17:12
Steve gives 11 ideas for being a good member of a band.
I add #12: Avoid writing too much on the music, not too dark, not too big, not too trivial (do not mark every G# and D# in the key of E, for example). And even consider erasing your stuff after the performance.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2005-10-27 17:32
If you really want to make copious, permanent, or bright markings on your music, you can always make a personal copy of your own part to do so.
Steve B. makes very good suggestions, although I would change No. 1 from "Be on time" to "Be early, giving yourself time to assemble your instrument and warm up before rehearsal starts. Be in place and ready to play at the scheduled start time."
I would add:
13. Attend all possible rehearsals. Show up at all concerts unless deathly ill or unless you've notified and made arrangements with the conductor way ahead of time. If unable to make a concert at the last minute due to extreme illness, let the conductor and section leader know you won't be there as soon as possible.
14. Take your music home and practice.
15. Make sure that your music makes it to all rehearsals, even if you can't (even due to sudden illness or emergency). Someone else may need to use it.
Regarding No. 15, I make it to 99.8% of all rehearsals and it seems that if I do happen to unexpectedly have to miss one, that will be the one when a new person shows up and needs to read something that is in only my folder.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-10-27 17:38
Don Poulsen wrote:
> If you really want to make copious, permanent, or bright
> markings on your music, you can always make a personal copy of
> your own part to do so.
No, you can't, and that's something that can't be endorsed in any way, shape, or manner on this very public BBoard.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-10-27 17:56
This reminds me of something I've wondered about for some time. What about *hand-copying* music for your personal use? I've done it often enough and with no thought in mind that it might be wrong to do so. Until now. Is that not be akin to taking lecture or classroom notes for later reference - and for study purposes? It "seems to me", as I do so, that I'm not copying to infringe on anyone's (intellectual) property, rather only to expand and hone my personal knowledge/skill.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2005-10-27 18:10
I'm not a lawyer, much less an intellectual property lawyer, but just want to state that the purpose of copyright laws as I understand them is to protect sales and use of the material and that making one personal copy of one part of an arrangement for large ensemble just so that you can mark on it as you wish would not cut into the sales of the publication, I don't think that music publishers care about it.
Technically, you may be correct. But, even as someone who rails against music file-sharing or other non-authorized use of copyrighted material, I don't think anyone will care.
My opinions, of course, do not necessarily reflect those of Mr. Charette, or anyone else connected with this website. I am open to correction from those better versed in the subject, music publishers or music copyright holders.
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2005-10-27 18:17
Don Poulsen wrote:
> I'm not a lawyer, much less an intellectual property lawyer,
> but just want to state that the purpose of copyright laws as I
> understand them is to protect sales and use of the material and
> that making one personal copy of one part of an arrangement for
> large ensemble just so that you can mark on it as you wish
> would not cut into the sales of the publication
Yes, I don't quite understand Mark's comment in this case. I thought that copying to preserve an original and then destroying the copy after the performance is okay? Unless of course, you don't have an original to back up every single copy.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-10-27 19:10
Carl,
very nice and inspiring description of a great joy.
I'd like to commend you on your rich use of language - especially your use of simile and metaphor.
Two examples that illustrate the important distintion:
1) fear rising "like a Tsunami." That's a simile - an illustrative and evocative comparison using the word "like." Comparing your increasing fear to a tsunami leaves no doubt about the extent of your emotion. Much more effective than writing: "I became very afraid."
2) "I had a ball." That there is a metaphor: ball = great time. On the face of it, this sentence could simply mean that you once had a ball (a spherical object), but now you don't have that ball anymore - maybe you misplaced it. However, the metaphor is so effective in context, that probably no one reading the passage would have mistaken what you meat. And the use of metaphor is so much more evocative and ebullient than simply saying, "I had a great time." It is a bit of a cliche, of course, but so are many metaphors.
I wish people posting here about use of metaphor in clarinet pedagogy would first try to understand the difference between metaphor and simile and use the terms correctly.
Thank you.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-10-27 19:33
Thanks for the vocabulary pointers, Larry, but are we on the same page? I thought we were discussing [photo]coyping sheet music, so we can mark it rather than the original for band practice.
- ron b -
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-10-27 19:41
AND, Larry, how about ANALOGY?, not necessarily the opposite of digital? I recall Prof. Higgins speech on OUR English language, in M F L . Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-10-27 20:26
ron b wrote:
> It "seems to me", as I do so, that I'm not copying to
> infringe on anyone's (intellectual) property, rather only to
> expand and hone my personal knowledge/skill.
You're not supposed to; the means of copying isn't relevant. However, the real damages to the author would be negligible.
Copyright really got its start in 1710 with the Statute of Queen Ann, which gave booksellers the rights to the books; the printing press had made it relatively simple to create copies where the original bookseller received no compensation. Shortly thereafter there were great disputes in the copyright of music, mostly because selling hymnals to churches was a very lucrative business for booksellers and printers. The selling of music, indeed, was instrumental (pun intended) in the formation of English common law in regards to intellectual rights.
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Author: johnsonfromwisconsin
Date: 2005-10-27 20:32
the law says you should not copy without permission, regardless of what you feel may be justified. I understand why Mark can't condone discussion promoting such. Websites such as this are often one lawsuit away from nonexistance.
edit: to stay on topic, I'll just say I miss my community band after moving out of town onto a new job working evenings. There are few things in life that I found so enjoyable....
-JfW
Post Edited (2005-10-27 20:34)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-10-27 20:33
Don Poulsen wrote:
> Technically, you may be correct. But, even as someone who rails
> against music file-sharing or other non-authorized use of
> copyrighted material, I don't think anyone will care.
The difference between downloading a music mp3 into your computer and Xeroxing a piece of music is exactly what? Both are for personal use ...
There are arrangements made all the time with publishers of band music whereby the purchaser is allowed to make copies of the music.
We always get into this "technically you may be correct" thing. Technically, the speed limit on many of my highways is 70mph. Often I do 80.
If I'm the one getting pulled over, even though everyone else is doing 80, those dollar bills I'm going to have to pay ain't so "technical", are they?
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2005-10-27 20:40
Mark C. wrote: The difference between downloading a music mp3 into your computer and Xeroxing a piece of music is exactly what? Both are for personal use ...
Sometimes copying music IS like downloading an mp3 onto your computer. In certain situations, though, it is more like putting a song from a CD you own onto your computer or your iPod.
Have fun in band, Carl!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-10-27 20:46
clarinetwife wrote:
> I
> thought that copying to preserve an original and then
> destroying the copy after the performance is okay?
You thought wrong.
Please no more discussion of copyright issues. Please refer to the previous thread as pointed out in a previous post.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2005-10-27 21:48
I thought that I had said the last I was going to say until Mark asked a direct question of me.
As clarinetwife pointed out, there is a difference, at least morally, if not legally.
If I file swap and load a song onto my computer or MP3 player that I got from an unauthorized source on the Internet, I am sidestepping the purchase of a CD or the paid download of the song and depriving the publisher, artist, etc. of rightful income.
If I load a song file onto my MP3 player from a CD I own or an MP3 that I purchased and previously downloaded to my computer, no one is going to expect that I would have purchased a second copy of the song for my player.
Copying one part out of an entire band score is more similar to the second case. If I do it, I have not sidestepped the sale of another full score as no one would expect me or the band to buy another copy just so I'd have one to mark on. And, if I am not mistaken, single parts are not usually available. The part it was copied from will likely sit unused in my band folder and the marked copy will either be tossed away or stuffed in a drawer until the next time the piece is brought out by the band. To use your speeding metaphor, I strongly doubt anyone is going to "pull me over" for this, even if a lawyer for the music publisher has direct knowledge of this action.
On the other hand, copying an entire score still under copyright to, say, share with another group would be an outright copyright violation and more similar to my first MP3 example above. It should not be done and should not be tolerated because it is obviously sidestepping the purchase of an additional copy. (The same would be true for copying a solo piece, unless I bought a solo, made a copy for my own use to mark on and kept the pristine copy in my library.)
At this point, I'll drop the discussion unless you ask another direct question of me, as I respect your distain for making any copies.
Post Edited (2005-10-27 21:49)
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-10-28 11:39
ron b:
by way of explanation:
I saw this thread going down two paths, one of which (#2) might turn out to be a dead end (I was right):
1) the joy of band practice
2) the copying of music
Knowing how firm the webmaster's position on music copying is (including expressions in support of music copying on this bboad), I thought I would test a tributary to the other stream of the discussion. (And, by the way, take an indirect swipe at the self serving and pompous "metaphor" postings that pop up here on occassion)
More people may have wanted to discuss music copying, but the other discussion was still on the page.
Cheers!
- L
Post Edited (2005-10-28 11:41)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-10-29 01:52
Chipper,
With the christmas seasons coming up, I want you to make sure to stay in touch and let us know how that first concert goes. Always fun to see a new clarinet master in the making, right?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2005-10-29 05:35
Carl,
Thank you for the inspiring essay.
Have fun with your band, as many of us here do.
Steve,
Great list! I'd like to quote it on my webpage, and translate into Korean, and even share that with my ensemble members. Wiill this again violate some copyright rules? I hope not, and I've done this several times before and many kindly agreed.
Lucy Lee Jang
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Author: Steve B.
Date: 2005-10-29 13:01
claclaws wrote:
> Steve,
>
> Great list! I'd like to quote it on my webpage, and translate
> into Korean, and even share that with my ensemble members.
> Wiill this again violate some copyright rules? I hope not, and
> I've done this several times before and many kindly agreed.
>
Lucy,
Glad you like the list. Please feel free to quote it.
Regards,
Steve Brauner
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2005-10-30 07:31
Thanks, Steve.
I didn't translate it completely, left the original version side by side.
And people who read it agreed totally with what you wrote: the only problem is how to stricly follow the listed points.
Lucy Lee Jang
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Author: Steve B.
Date: 2005-10-30 17:38
Well, the hints are for good musicianship. Some folks are playing in
community bands just to have a good time, and that's ok. After all
most band members are not getting paid and usually don't have to audition.
However, with a good director it can be very satisfying to see how high you
can elevate the level of a group if some basic guidelines are followed. But as probably stated elsewhere, the politics of a community group can be tricky. Hopefully you can find a good balance between the fun aspect and making good music.
Steve
Post Edited (2005-10-30 17:43)
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2005-10-30 22:53
Your second remark really transcends the nationalities.
I've heard a story that a group had no choice but to break down because of that imbalance.
Lucy Lee Jang
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2005-10-31 00:13
I can understand the "balance" Steve is referring to, but I think that in some ways musicianship and fun are connected and in some ways they are not. IMO, and I would be very interested in other points of view on this, playing in a group where people do not care about the quality of musicmaking is not fun. On the other hand, it certainly is possible not to have fun in a group that plays at a high level, often because of personality clashes and stresses. Making music and having fun intersect to some extent, but one does not cause or preclude the other.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-10-31 01:44
Hi,
Community-type bands come in all shapes and sizes. Of the three such bands I have played in in the last five years, one has been a disaster and two have been terrific musical successes.
The bad news: A local community band that has a director (a few years of maginal HS experience) who has lost his way; the band has been like a ship without a rudder. No auditions or attendance required. A series of summer concerts in the local area. I left this band about a year ago in disgust; it was going nowhere fast.
The Good News #1: A community wind ensemble in a major Great Plains city which has a rigid audition and attendance policy and is lead by a university professor with a doctorate in conducting. She has much experience and demands a great deal from the band; rehearsals are highly structured and a lot is expected. A rigid four concerts per year. It was a sad day for me when I retired and left that city
The Good News #2: I currently play in a local community college wind ensemble. A fine and very experienced director that has an outstanding HS record of contest performance. Auditions required and attendance is taken; rehearsals are run like clockwork. A challenging series of four concerts per year. I really enjoy this group.
My wife says I am an elitist; she is correct. I don't play for fun but I have a whole lot of fun playing (it right). I would be a great stand partner as I think am friendly, helpful, and pretty easy to get along with but you'd have to have your part ready (because I do).
HRL
PS I just read to my wife what I wrote and she said "you have just announced to the world that you are a pain in the ..." She is such a kidder!
Post Edited (2005-10-31 14:25)
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2005-10-31 02:05
I have always thought that making music well was the epitome of having fun. There is simply nothing that I would rather do.
And I do second the notion that it is much MORE fun when it is done well -- or at least, done at a level commensurate with my own ability. I lose patience trying to play with folks whose basic gift or achievement level in music is lacking. But I am sure the more gifted and accomplished among us might feel the same way about playing with me! B-o-r-i-n-g!
What drives me even more batty, though, is the person who has some native ability, and chooses to participate in a group, but refuses to apply him- or herself.
I had one of these in a choral group I directed. She chewed gum, brought photo albums of her vacations, and talked, talked, talked, talked, talked throughout the rehearsals.
When I very pointedly told her that she needed to cease and desist, she responded with wounded innocence, "But we're only volunteers! We're here to have FUN!"
My response was that, as far as I was concerned, what she had VOLUNTEERED to do was to make music, and if she didn't find that an enjoyable way to spend an evening, she should find some other recreation and let the rest of us proceed.
Well, she kept coming, and she did contribute to the group, but she lived for the parties, not the performances! Go figure.
Susan
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2005-10-31 08:57
This thread is getting even more interesting and helpful.
My questions relate more to startup groups with smaller number of members and with a not-terribly-dedicated/or no conductor:
1. How to deal "nicely" with those people who don't apply themselves ?
The above story Susan shared can be one..
2. How to encourage those who are discouraged because they think they lack the performing skills, need more lesson, and say they'd rather stop coming. And make them keep coming?
3. For those who keep coming but think rehearsal=lesson ?
Lucy Lee Jang
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-10-31 14:33
Lucy,
Yes, those are the quesions that need to be answered. When it is a pay job, you either cut it or you don't get invited back. In the Success Stories that I cite above, you don't usually get in unless you can cut it; if you slack off, you and the director get some "quality time" together.
The fatal error though is for a player to believe that since he or she is a "volunteer" that nothing is owed to the group in the way of "cutting it." The advice given above to assist Carl is a good start.
Another piece of advice from way back though is "Lead, Follow, or Get Out of The Way!"
HRL
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Author: chipper
Date: 2005-10-31 16:16
Thanks all for the suggestions on band practice ettiquite. I had a few wrong, well not mortal sin wrong, but... and will try to assimilate the manners of those more experienced band members. Not much chance of having to be exposed as the other third clarinet is very strong and I can "do no harm" by playing quietly or not at all on difficult passages untill I develope greater proficincy. I've also been told that to hit a wrong note at the right time is less offense than to hit the right note at the wrong time. I'm working hard to take that advice to heart.
Perhaps a matter of semantics, but a distinction between joy and fun can be made. Fun is cheap. One can have fun on an ammusement park ride or at a conedy show. It requires very little skill on the part of the fun-haver. But to get joy from life, one must be a worthy participant. Through dilligence and sense of purpose one becomes good at something. What do they say, 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration? Some seem to perspire more than others to attain the same level of competence, guess that's explained as talent. And folks, I recomend you all invest your money in companies selling antiperspirants because I'm perspiring profusely in my persuite of becoming proficient with my horn.
Thanks for the support.
C
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