 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-10-18 19:31
I've attached three pictures of the parts of my clarinet where the silver plating has worn off significantly so you can see. I'm wondering if this is harmful to the keys or not. Is it a good idea (healthwise to Clarabelle the Third) to get her keys buffed/replated, or would it not affect her health and only affect her looks?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2005-10-18 19:31)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-10-18 20:47
Alexi...the pics don't help much but if it were my horn I wouldn't be concerned about the plating.
Bob Draznik
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-10-19 02:03
Thanks Nick. See you noticed the various clarinet-related items that float about my room at random.
And thanks Bob. I could care less about how my clarinet LOOKS. I just want to make sure that it's going to be able to play and play for a long time.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2005-10-19 02:45
There are some pretty unattractive clarinets that make mighty fine sounds! If you're concerned about the esthetics, have them replated.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-10-19 12:03
"have them replated"
Perhaps easier said than done. There are probably fewer platers than technicians today and even fewer who specialize in clarinet keywork. If you find one then you have to determine if fussy dimensions will be maintained.
If you know of a reliable plater of clarinet keywork let us know.
Bob Draznik
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-10-19 20:30
So I guess it's not going to be harmful to the clarinet. I just wasn't sure if the plating was a "protectant" for the underlying metal and that the metal would rot away with my sweat without proper plating.
Just wanted to be sure that she'll be around for a while, as I don't see myself stopping in the near future.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-19 21:49
They never used to plate keys on older clarinets - look at any older Buffet, Selmer, Leblanc, Malerne, etc. they all had unplated nickel silver keywork. Only problem with plated keys is that when the plate wears in places, the base metal will wear down as well (at a faster rate than silver or nickel plate) causing a slight hollow or a flat spot on the normally rounded surface of a touchpiece, but this can be filed and papered down before plating so the key will end up looking normal.
The worst kind of damage on plated keys is pitting - the plating will have bumps on the surface, but beneath the plating the base metal will be corroded and deeply pitted, and this is more difficult to smooth down as the pitting can be fairly widespread on any part of the keywork, so filing and papering down to get a smooth finish can result in the keywork being made too thin or looking like the current Buffet Tosca - keywork with no definition.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-10-19 22:22
It may well be that you are one of those unfortunates like me whose sweat eats through the finish on stuff. I have this problem with saxophones to a certain extent, but with clarinets to a great degree.
We found that I would "frost" the surface of nickel silver keywork in as little as three months, despite wiping horns down at the end of a session. The solution that worked was to go to silver plate. Now, I don't wipe the horns down, play far more than I did in the nickel plate days, and the finish on the keys looks fine.
I am also one who feels that silver feels better to the touch than does nickel plate. With nickel on the surfaces, a clarinet has always felt "greasy" to me, whereas with the silver it feels like there's more "tack" there between finger and surface.
It's a costly solution, though. And, when in good shape and clean, silver plate looks spectacular under theatrical lighting (mixed lights shining from overhead).
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-20 16:07
Some nickel plated keys are more prone to frosting or greying - my Vito Eb has gone grey at contact points, but I've played nickel plated B&H and Yamaha instruments with no tarnishing, and have never had any problems with silver plated keys.
I agree that silver has more grip under the fingers than nickel and I prefer the feel of silver for that reason, and it looks better than nickel. Also, nickel plate is applied much thinner than silver and is harder to work with when refitting plated keys - if the nickel is applied too thick, fraising tools will skate on the nickel instead of cutting through. And this is worse with chrome plated keys - as on some older student model Fox and French system bassoons, and has all the grip of braking hard on an icy road with bald tyres.
Rhodium plating has tons of grip, so sliding RH pinky from Ab/Eb to Gb/Db can be tricky.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2005-10-20 20:35
Alexi,
I wouldn't worry a lot. Unless you're using your clarinet in very unusual spaces (eg in a car wash) the keys won't get damaged. The plating is for our eyes and our fingers, not to protect the metal beneath.
Worn keys just testify that the clarinet has been loved enough to be played a lot. :-)
--
Ben
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-10-20 20:44
My old 1956 R13 is unplated - damn good idea in my view. Unplated keys, ie sold alloy, do go a pale champagne colour with age, but hey! It's the music after all. Apparently Moennig liked R13s unplated and always ordered the early serial numbers (c 50K-100K) in this way. He said they were easier to bend and tweak.
I have been advised, when I enquired in the past about replating a newer R13 that had brassed, that it wasn't a good idea.
Issue 1 is that the plater has to be extremely careful to 'paint' out the rod barrels and ends etc., so that plating is not deposited in areas that would make refittign a pig.
Issue 2 is that a couple of experts I've spoken to have said that 'replated clarinets never sound as good'. Who know if that's really right or not, or whether it depends on the artisan's touch, but why risk it?
Nick
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-10-20 21:50
I know of one person who takes clarinets to Brazil for plating....no pollution control there. Before stainless steel was invented nickel silver alloys were what was used for corrosion resistance....dairy utensils, sinks etc etc. Personally I like silver more than nickel for more than one reason.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-21 00:22
I heard that they're to stop using lead solder in PSBs in the very near future as well.
I had my 1962 R13 Eb keywork and fittings all silver plated by the company that plates and makes Buffet's (and Rigoutat among many others) keys and castings. I'm used to having to ream out key barrels after plating so this isn't an issue for me, as long as I have the right size reamers. The only reamer I didn't have was the 2.1mm one for the F/C and Ab/Eb keys, but the small steels were 1.9mm and the largest was 2.2mm.
2.1mm is an unusual size for a steel screw - they're usually 1.9, 2.0, 2.2, 2.4 and 2.5 on clarinets and oboes.
The worst keys to fit are the top two trills as the Bb trill is mounted over the top trill key barrel, and this is a bugger to fit without binding or wobbling - the same was true with the LH levers on this Eb, but the action on these isn't as critical as the trill keys as no pads are mounted on these. But on my Eb the barrels were slightly tapered as opposed to parallel, which is an even bigger headache, but not impossible to sort out.
Platers won't 'paint out' key barrels, there's far too many to do - they use these to wire the keys up to a frame so no wire marks are left on the keys and there needs to be good electrical conductivity for the plating to work.
And I like keys to have a nickel flash before the silver is applied - this givs a smooth surface for the silver to adhere to, and a smooth finish. But if too much nickel is plated under the silver, the plating will crack when the key is bent, and the barrel fraise will skate on the nickel after it has cut through the silver, and applying pressure only flares the ends of the barrel and blunts the cutting edges of the barrel fraise - so specify a mere flash of nickel, no more than a few microns thick, then a minimum of 25 microns of silver for a good finish - any defects (if the plater uses too high a current) can be burnished out and buffed. And if they can put an anti tarnish coating on afterwards, even better still - the shine will last longer.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-10-21 02:13
My clarinet has lost her plating,
I don't know how to stop her...
The missing silver I find grating
for below it there's some copper.
It might be nickel, I don't know
it's messing up my cranium....
Because I'm scared the metal bared
could be some hot uranium!
Free verse: you get what you pay for!
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-10-21 02:25
And although she looks much duller
and has lost throughout the years, her gleam,
Don't confuse her with an old Muller,
because in the right hands, she can still play like a dream.
(How about that "muller" reference? Not bad!)
Alexi
PS - Damn you Dave S for breaking out the A-B-A-B rhyming format and making my life that much harder! What's next, iambic pentameter?!
US Army Japan Band
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-10-21 12:00
David 8/10 pretty damn good - almost worth paying for.
Alexi 2/10 - what kind of meter is that??
Nick
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-10-21 15:28
sfalexi wrote:
> No meter intended.
Sort of like a cadenza ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ...GBK
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