 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2005-09-09 07:25
A previous topic has made me wonder about your local concert bands, I’m interested to hear how you run your local concert bands ….In the Netherlands, we use the same system as our Belgian neighbours…but it seems to be very different to many of the other country’s!
Our concert band buys and insures all of the instrument. The clarinets that we buy are mainly the E13, because it's good enough for the 2nd and 3rd clarinet players. The more advanced players buy often their own instruments, but are also insured with the concert band insurance.
We have a couple of ways to earn money:
- The concert band owns a café with a large hall, which the members of our local concert band run. We rent the hall for party’s to earn some money.
- We also do many open air concerts and a lot of marching to earn some money.
- Fund raising is being done, by our members, to keep the money flowing.
- Our concert band has about 110 members, all are paying a yearly contribution. (about 50 euro / 62 US dollar)
- We have approached a group of investors to contribute yearly 100 euro (124 US dollar).
When we get new members, mostly at the age of 9, they first learn to read notes (takes about a half year). After this their going to a music school. The concert band pays about 30% of the education costs of a music school, to ensure that the musicians can learn to play at a high level. When they are playing the instrument for about 1 year, they are joining a small ensemble with all of the new members. We do this to remove the huge difference in level of playing between our orchestra’s. After a year they leave the ensemble and join the Youth concert band and from this stage it takes about 1,5 year to get in to the main orchestra. They still play in the youth orchestra until their 18 years old.
Reeds are being bought by the concert band, if anyone wants to use a other brand than VD… than they have to buy it their selves…
We have a own website but.. it’s not in your language…sorry. Maybe something for the future? I will give you the link anyway, there some pictures here so it could give you a better picture…. Concordia Obbicht
How do you run the local concert bands in your country?
Post Edited (2005-09-09 08:03)
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-09-09 08:44
Our concert band is a much more modest affair. We don't provide training, we don't provide instruments. We all pay a subscription, and we raise money by giving concerts. Ages of band members are anything from about 15 to 80.
The set up OpusII describes is more like a British brass band. These often provide instruments and train youngsters. This is easier for them than it would be for a concert band because once you can play one brass band instrument you can play them all, at least to some extent, and it is common for players to move between instruments. (The trombone being a bit of a special case.)
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-09 09:59
Same as David Peacham describes as concert bands go, but then there's the committee - and the committee members seem to have some strange powers that entitle them to play on first chairs when it's clear they can't play their intrument to save their lives!
I upset a committee member by playing her (oboe) solo for her as she couldn't manage it, talk about treading on her toes - her face was a right picture! She seems alright with me now as I'm no longer a threat - I'm on solo clarinet instead of oboe now, even though I was already on oboe before she started with this band, but I moved away from the area and she took over (now I've returned as they haven't got any competent clarinet players, and they were happy for me to come in and do solo clarinet to take the pressure of them!).
Another band run in this way had a committee member (who is also a county teacher, though she can't play well herself) elbow her way onto solo clarinet, and again she couldn't cut it - only excercising her sense of authority to get her there, but I did say 'those that can't, teach' to her and challenged her on several occasions (usually about seating arrangements where she insists in having all the clarinets sitting on the frontline, and oboe and flutes squashed to one side), one time saying 'that's a nice Eb you played there' when it was a high E she was meant to play, anything she played above G was dreadfully flat - now it seems they have a competent player on solo clarinet and she's descended down the ranks to bassoon. And I stopped playing in that band a long while back.
Hearing from a trumpet player, this committee lady has friend of hers on first trumpet that, just like her, can't cut it - but due to the 'it's not what you know, it's who you know' attitude they seem to be untouchable, and more competent players are completely overlooked.
I think these bands should really have some sort of audition to see who is fit for which part, rather than just putting anyone that has connections on important chairs, despite their incompetence as musicians.
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2005-09-09 12:46
Our concert band is a bit smaller than the dutch version above, but in general we more or less try to work the same way.
Only, we can't really make money out of music. Most of the money we have comes from organizing a few times per year a 'restaurant' (or 'mussels souper' - some kind of 'dutch' clamps).
It if far easier for us making money from 'cooking'.
This is partly because we don't have a decent concert hall, so setting things up for a concert costs us a lot of money (lighting, stage,....) that we cannot recuperate from the entrance fee.
Also conductor, special act etc. has to be payed for.
Sofar we manage without yearly contribution, but don't know how long we can keep this up.
But at the end, as long as we can 'make' the money, I don't mind spending it on music related things (music, instruments and concert organisations)
We also get some kind of community money but that barely covers our basic administration costs.
The insurance is relative cheap because it is done through a central flemish organisation for 'non professional orchestra's'
Post Edited (2005-09-09 12:48)
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2005-09-09 13:05
I've forgot to mentioned that we've to pay our conductors to.....
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-09-09 13:43
There are 2 separate groups here - adult community bands and student bands. Student bands are part of the public school system, and not associated with adult groups. Almost every middle and high school in the state has a band, many also have orchestras and choral programs. Instrumental music in the school system is big business locally - one band nearby has 500 kids in the marching program alone. But thats a totally separate entity than adult community bands. No local community bands accept young students.
I'm in a community band - adults only, we don' t accept anyone who isn't proficient on their instrument - e.g, no beginners. Occassionally we take a high school student, but usually its adults with college degrees - age 22 on up to about 80.
Funding - local government has a small tax on hotel and motels, the revenue is used by the city to fund arts projects in the city. They give us an annual budget which we use to lease rehearsal space, pay conductors, buy music and purchase percussion equipment. Members pay an annual membership fee - $40 USD
Equipment - all members required to furnish their own insturment except percussion.
Management - by committee as above. I'll keep my foot out of my mouth and not comment further on that subject
Young beginners - age 9 - that happens in our public school music programs. E.G., community (adult) bands are not associalted with the school system. 9 year olds here are in elementary school - voice and recorders. They start on band instruments in 6th grade (age 11). A few schools hold off until 7th grade (age 12). Most of the local schools - schools provide expensive intruments for the students (percussion , horn, double reeds, euphonium and tuba). Students lease them from the school, usually about $100 per year. Students on other instruments are required to purchase or lease their own horn.
Reeds - bands buying reeds for students ? Never - students provide their own reeds and supplies. No reed in class, get a zero for your daily grade that day. Band parent organizations hold fund raisers , to help students with financial difficulties obtain instruments and lessons. But they rarely provide help with reeds.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-09 14:28
The word 'committee' has become a swear word in certain circumstances - especially with regards to a certain Big Band in my area where the committee wants to run this band as a social club rather than a band, won't put the effort into the music or get competant players in on important chairs to improve things, have no ambition to better themselves and their lack of organisation on the simplest of matters is incredible.
But that's not the Big Band I play regularly in, that's run by the lead alto player/MD who sacks players as he sees fit, and there's been plenty of sackings in the last few months.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-09-09 15:45)
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2005-09-09 14:31
OpusII - I was astounded to read about your band. I would be amazed if there was such a thing in the USA. The band I play in is much like David Peacham's, where we all pay an annual fee to cover costs, and there are a few small fund raising efforts from the player-board.
I have some questions for you. Do your public schools there also have music programs including band and orchestra? If so, how does your band relate to that program? Is the "music school" independent from your band and from public schools?
Does your organization have a paid staff - people who run the fund raising and work as administrators? Who runs the cafe (this is the part that really impressed me.......imagine a band cafe!)
Sorry to ask all these questions, but I think your program is very interesting and I would like to know more.
johng
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2005-09-09 14:36
Strange that your community band doesn't take students.
We have a youth group in the band and we try to get the kids 'in' as quick as possible, so we hope they stay (forever) in our band.
It is not uncommon that good 14/15 year olds really start to become nice players (instrument class starts at 10) and definately some of the'18' year olds are among the better musicians we have, if they completed music school.
We don't have real school bands, because 'real' music eduction is done outside college. we have separate 'music schools' that have classes 'after' elementary/college school hours (from 4pm til 10pm) or on wednesday afternoon/saturday morning. Maybe only 1 out of 15 college students also go to these schools, the others don't have music education.
I think by the way I need some 'education' in naming conventions. I'm not sure I don't mess up words like : band, orchestra, wind band, symphonic band,...
band/wind band for me is : woodwinds, brass, percussion (no strings). we don't have many 'marching' bands over here anymore, i.e. the above instrumental combination that plays music while 'moving' around either on the streets or on a field. Most bands here play mostly only concerts.
we call this 'band-type'; Harmonie, sometimes even cello or string bass can take part. The abolsute best - world champion in Kerkrade this year - even have Bass sax, and contrabass clarinet and other 'rare' instruments.
Orchestra seems to mean for you the same as 'symphonic ochestra', here the word is used more generic for every combination.
we also have something called 'fanfare' ; which is saxes/brass/percussion (so no clarinets, flutes, hoboes or bassoons). The sound is to me a bit more limited. Attention this is not a 'brass band', because that is a fixed combination without Saxes, often found in England.
we don't have a café only for the band, but we are strongly linked with a café (it's a separate organisation but the band has majority of votes, and part of the profit).
The best organized bands in Belgium indeed have there own infrastructure for rehearsing and socializing/fund raising - no concert halls. The others often have somekind of link with such infrastructure due to historical reasons (often political)
Post Edited (2005-09-09 14:40)
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2005-09-09 15:07
Most U.S. community bands are similar in many aspects, with differences in the details. I belong to two groups.
In one of them, most anyone can join without audition. We have some high school students. I would suspect that someone who really couldn't cut it would be asked to leave. (I recall from years back, an older gentleman who played saxophone came to two rehearsals and never returned. I suspect that, since he knew no volume level other than forte, it was politely suggested that this may not be the group for him.) We are run by an elected board. This does not entitle them to be first chair, but I think that the opposite is in effect--if you are first chair, you are more likely to get elected, as if good musical ability implies good administrative ability. I have seen no politics in the group in my eleven years of membership. We pay $20 dues per year, but this is waived for those for whom it would be a burden. We get the bulk of our operating funds though payment from some of our venues and through donations. Musicians provide their own instruments except for percussion. Oh, and we recently bought a bass clarinet. Most, but not all, concerts are outdoor summer concerts.
The second group I play with requires auditions to get in (although I managed to get in without one--another story). Some accomplished high school students who have been invited by the conductor play with the group. The vast majority of musicians in this group are music educators. Again, there is an elected board who runs the group, but the conductor is in charge of seating. There are no dues. The group relies on donations and various fund-raising schemes. Tickets are sold to concerts, but most tickets are complimentary. All concerts are formal indoor concerts.
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2005-09-09 15:11
Johng,
As Belgianclarinet just described, we don't have real school bands. But we do scout for new members at the public schools. The music school is independent from our "Harmonie" ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif) ..
Our band is no organisation with a paid staff, al members are volunteers. Even the administrators and the people who run the café. Actually there are many people who volunteer to work in the café, so that you don’t have to work that often in there. I’m once a month bartender in there….
Post Edited (2005-09-09 15:11)
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Author: Mike Clarinet
Date: 2005-09-09 15:37
My community band has about 30 members of all ages. We don't audition anyone, we operate on 'turn up and see if you like us'. We accept anyone who is willing to work, although the standard of music we play generally requires UK grade 5 or above standard. There are less strong players in the band, and their contribution is encouraged as much as anyone else's. Fund-raising is a mixture of annual subscription (£60) and paid bandstand gigs in the summer. We do several formal concerts in a year - 2004 saw 2, this year 3, next year 4. These are charity events, where a nominated charity gets the proceeds after expenses from ticket sales, and raffle takings. The good thing about working with a charity is that they sell tickets for us, which gets us a wider audience than family & friends. The band is run by a comittee, but our Musical Director has last word on who sits on what seats. This avoids the problem of all the committee and their cronies being 1st seat when they can't cut it. He and the assistant MD are the only paid members, and like a lot of community band MD's in the UK, both have military connections. Our MD's select the repertoire and music for concerts, but are always open to suggestions from the rest of the band.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-09 15:39
I used to play in an excellent concert band based in Brighton (E.Sussex, UK), this was mainly made up from orchestral players and teachers and the repertoire included Stravinsky's 'Ebony Concerto', Bernstein's 'Prelude, Fugue and Riffs', Shostakovitch's 'Festive Overture', Gerschwin's 'Rhapsody In Blue', Copeland's 'Fanfare...', Mozart's 'Gran Partita', some other pieces by Joseph Horowitz, Ives, Vaughan-Williams, Walton, Milhaud, Weill and a commissioned piano concerto by a local composer (we had a pianist come in for that and 'Rhapsody...', 'Prelude...' and the Ebony concerto), but usually several modern pieces with ridiculous time changes in them, which I have forgotten about.
Only problem was the lack of time to rehearse pieces (usually sight-reading them on the morning of the concert, and the concert followed the rehearsal without a break!) and an audience (or lack of) - the band usually outnumbered them. The musicians weren't funded, and some would travel a 60 mile round trip or more (like me) to do concerts.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-09-09 19:19)
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2005-09-09 18:14
I participate in three different bands.
Perhaps the most unusual is a strictly a "drop-in" type group, which has been in continuous existence since 1913. Anyone, at whatever level, is welcome to come at any time -- be it for that one time only, or whenever the spirit moves, or always (and there are those of each type at virtually every performance). On a good day, there will be upwards of 30 players, well-distributed among brass, woodwinds, and percussion. The least I have ever seen at a gig was 8.
There are NO rehearsals. We play from a repertoire of about 70 pieces, mostly marches, school songs, and popular tunes. There is no director, but one or another of the longer-tenured members will be designated to set the beat at the start of each piece. There is a band secretary and assistant, who are paid, and are responsible for finding gigs and communicating with the membership about them. The group is usually paid some sort of honorarium, but also does unpaid community work (such as playing for ceremonies on Memorial Day, the Fourth of July, etc.).
This band plays from roughly May through December. In the summer months, it is not unusual to have three "plays" per week. At the end of the season, the receipts for the year are toted up, expenses paid, and any overage is divided among the members, based upon attendance (which is meticulously kept by the secretary). Last summer, even with quite spotty attendance, I ended up with $60. This year it wil be more.
My other two bands are more in the typical "community band" mode. Each has a paid director and assistant director, plus an unpaid (but very much appreciated) personnel coordinator and a music librarian. Both groups are 501(c) 3 organizations, which means they can seek and accept public monies for funding. One is sponsored by the community, one is sponsored by a small private liberal arts college. Neither charges tuition, and both are open to older youth who have the chops to play orchestral transcriptions and the like, and the commitment to rehearsals and performances. Both own some of the more unusual and/or expensive instruments, such as bassoons, bass/contrabass clarinets, timpani, and auxiliary percussion.
The community band is come-one-come-all, with a board elected annually from the membership. There are no auditions, but there are certain "generally recognized" standards for self-placement (for example, if you don't know your altissimo, don't volunteer to play first!). Many of the participants in this group are current or former school music teachers or retired military band types, and in general, the musicianship level is quite high and the internal politics almost absent. Since it is a summer band only, there are also quite a number of college students home on break who participate. The youngest member is in high school, the eldest is 87 years old. Members are sometimes invited to appear as soloists; other special guest performers are drawn from the community.
The college-affiliated band is by audition (which, in my case, constituted the director, who is also the chair of the Music Department, having heard me taking my oboe lessons next door to his office and inviting me to join). The director determines section principals, and is also responsible for finding players, setting repertoire, and engaging guest musicians. Because this is a year-round band, virtually all of the members are college students and adults -- very few high schoolers. The musicianship level is higher in this group, although the repertoire attempted is quite similar to that of the community band.
The Netherlands system outlined in the first post here sounds phenomenal!
Susan
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Author: Shorthand
Date: 2005-09-09 18:31
I play in the Austin Symphonic Band:
http://www.asband.org/
Just to add to Paul's comments. Our funding structure is almost identical. In addition to dues, donations, and a grant from the City of Austin, we do play 2 or 3 paid "gigs" every 4th of July (and the week thereof). All of our players provide their own instruments. (We borrow percussion from the same school that we rent rehearsal space from.) Our indoor pay concerts unfortunately aren't well attended. We really do this for our own enjoyment.
Our outdoor free concerts (with a collection that is taken up) draw much larger crowds.
What Paul failed to mention is that in Texas public schools, there is a key relationship between the band and the football (American football) team. Having live music at the game really does raise the spirits of the team and crowd and as a result helps win games (or at least so everyone believes).
The upside is that band programs are well funded, have high participation levels (usually about 10% of a given middle-class high school). In public schools, instruments over about $3,000 are provided (Tenor saxes, but not altos, bass clarinets, but not sopranos, bassoons, tubas, French Horns, and of course percussion.) Students on other insturments are required to provide their own. Some schools (ones that draw from a higher socio-economic class) are getting awfully strict on their requirements. I know of one that requires students to START on E11's.
This system churns out a lot of good musicians, and as football's support continues in college, there are extensive wind music programs at that level at most Texas public universities - which then turn out the band directors and private teachers that staff the secondary school system. However there are a lot of good musicians that choose careers in other areas.
As a result, the majority of ASB's members have played some in college and many have music degrees. We have a fair number of the local secondary school band directors and a few of the private teachers.
While there are no official auditions, there is a waiting list for most sections, and the section leaders are free to offer membership to whoever they want from that waiting list (so they choose based on talent). I've never heard of anyone being asked to leave, and I've never heard of a visitor that didn't know how to play his or her instrument. If you're a little behind the ensemble - a little (or a lot) of practice will usually fix that.
Post Edited (2005-09-09 18:36)
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Author: GoatTnder
Date: 2005-09-11 16:23
I play in two concert bands. The first, at my university, is how you'd expect a university band to be. There's a relatively modest fee, but the participant is expected to provide their own instrument and supplies (except percussion). All the administration and funding is run by the school.
The second band is a community organization that's a little bit different than others here. There are three branches of the community band: The Citrus Wind Ensemble, the Citrus Swing Orchestra, and the Moreno Valley Premiere. CSO is the big money maker of the three, and plays several (mainly dance, but the occasional concert) gigs a year at private parties, fund raisers, and the occasional public event (I'm on 2nd alto here). A board of 7 people decides how and when to spend the earnings of CSO (approx. 10-15,000 a year).
The CWE was until recently a come-as-you-are group, accepting anyone who was willing to commit to weekly rehearsals and the occasional performance. As of a month ago, the CWE switched to an invitation only ensemble. The board mentioned earlier either auditions all the players, or are familiar enough with their playing to offer them a seat. Now with about half as many rehearsals, we're able to put together more challenging and entertaining pieces. There is no entry fee for this group, costs are covered mainly by the pay from the CSO and CWE performances (price is usually $500-$3000, depending on the size and location of the event). The CWE did contain quite a few high school students before the switch. Now, there are only a couple. The rest are in college or have graduated and simply enjoy playing and can do it well. To my knowledge, there is only one fully professional player in the group (on French Horn), but we have a good spattering of semi-pro players. Ages are from 15 to 60s or 70s.
The last group is the MVP, and that is a marching band that meets for only a couple months in summer. This is mainly highschool students who want to play all summer long, which is great. It's the only group of the three that charges a participation fee, but it's only about $20.
Check out our completely horrible websites:
http://swingmusic.cjb.net/
http://mvcb.cjb.net/
Andres Cabrera
South Bay Wind Ensemble
www.SouthBayWinds.com
sbwe@sbmusic.org
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-09-11 16:50
> What Paul failed to mention is that in Texas public schools, there is a key > relationship ,,,,
And I failed to comment on the sheer size - there are 5 million folks in my metropolitian area. 23 million in this state. we have 8-10 community bands in this city alone (including suburbs). many have a waiting list. so theres no reason to include beginners. there are thousands and thousands of band students in the public schools in this state. actually, many thousands just this CITY alone. totally different from what was described in the first post.
> I know of one that requires students to START on E11's.
thats common here too - strongly suggest an e11 for beginners. i haven't convinced them to switch to forte's yet, but am trying
high school students are strongly encouraged to get r-13's. the wind ensemble (top band) students on all instruments get a lot of pressure to upgrade to professional horns. brass players are encouraged to have pro level horns outside on the marching field at some of the schools.
>As a result, the majority of ASB's members have played some in college >and many have music degrees. We have a fair number of the local >secondary school band directors and a few of the private teachers.
ditto here - many music degrees, band directors and private teachers in the community bands. i'd be suprised if we had more than 2 or 3 who did NOT play all through college.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Shorthand
Date: 2005-09-11 23:17
There are 1.2 million Texas high school students.
I'm guessing about 5% participation in Band programs, so figure 60,000 Texas high school band students at any time. Participation levels are actually higher in middle school, so even though its only 3 years long, just as many more.
I figure something on the order or 4,000 Texas high school band students graduating every year having 7 years of music education. Perhaps twice that with 4 or 5 years worth. (Assuming about 1.5% of seniors still in band.)
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-09-12 00:54
participation is 12%-18% at the middle schools i'm associated with
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2005-09-12 09:03
I really find it strange to read that most bands don’t recruit their own youth. That’s the most important part of our band, recruit people and try to hold them as long as possible.
We search for new members at the local public school, two of our members go there and educate the children about musical instruments. We do this always to the class where the children are about 9 years old. After seeing the instruments we often let them try to blow on a instrument. Some of them get enthusiastic and some of them don’t, but from a class of 35 people we get usually about 9 new members.
The 9 new members are going to learn reading notes. They get education on Sunday morning in a class in our own building. After a half year of lessons, they get a examination and eventually their diploma. (If some student would fail, than they get personal help until they past the exam)
Then we get the most difficult part of the system… getting the new members on the instruments that you want. This isn’t always easy, but we only let them choose the instruments that we’re going to need in the future. At this point they also decide if their going to part of the harmonie or the drumband.
Harmonie - Woodwinds, brass, percussion
Drumband –All sorts of percussion
The children are all going to a music school to learn to play their instrument. They have to pay the music school them selves, but we give them yearly 30% of the education cost back. We invest in this students, because they’re going to be very important for us in the future.
We have contact witch all teachers to see if everything goes well. If a student just can’t play his/her instrument, then we try to let them play a different sort of instrument. After one year we talk to the teachers if they find their students ready for the next step.
The new members of the harmonie form a small ensemble (only the new ones and no other players) and the members of the drumband form a small percussion ensemble. Here they learn to play together and if they ready than they will give some concerts. Most parents are very proud to see their children playing for the first time on stage.
A year has gone by and the new harmonie members are ready for the Youth harmonie, the new drumband members get marching lessons from one of our members. Some of the new members of the drumband want to play in the harmonie as well, they get marching lessons and go to the youth harmonie. Our youth harmonie is playing at a very high level, they even play higher as some of the harmonie orchestra’s in our area. If we need some additional instruments in the orchestra’s that aren’t in the youth orchestra, then (if really necessary) we will ask one of the older members to join the youth orchestra.
After a half year of marching the new members of the drumband are going to join the drumband.
After the members of the youth harmonie have played for about 1,5 year, their going to join the harmonie.
Our association looks very much like a business organisation. We have a chairman which is chosen every four years. We have a financial worker and about 10 other management functions (also like instrument management). All participants are volunteers and can be chosen every 4 years….they only have to be eligible.
The café and hall are being cleaned by volunteers and volunteers are running the café. We even have about 40 people who are authorized to be a bartender. You have to follow a course for that in the Netherlands. We try to run party’s in the hall with our own members, the people who volunteer to run a party do get a little amount of money for it. When it’s necessary we will contract people to do the work. Painting, electric work and other jobs are all done by members of our harmonie. You will think that this all is very much work… well it is.
When we do fundraising, then this is done by all of the members. They are going with groups of always to members for safety (One has to be adult). We also do a lot of (show)marching to earn some extra money.
Because we’re member of the FKM a dutch music federation, we have to go on concourse with our harmonie every 5 years. They obliges one piece (you can select one out of 10 choices) and you’ve to select two other pieces.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-09-12 14:38
The many above excellent descriptions and comments thereon say more than I can [or need to]. As in governments [in general] and other organizations, we get what we wish and "Doin' Jist Hut Coms Nachurle" as in Annie GYG. 'Nuff? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-09-12 15:30
I think that Opus's system of youth recruitment would be a preferable one, but would be very hard to do here.
Being involved with an adult group, seeing it in action, and being set up to eventually joint it could be a strong incentive to young players who are languishing in school bands.
Having to personally pay for a good part of a child's music instruction might put a more serious mindset on parents as well.
Sounds like you have a good system set up, OpusII.
Allen Cole
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2005-09-12 15:43
One reason such a system would not work as well in the U.S. is that children who learn music and go on to college usually end up working and living in a completely different city and state.
That being said, I find it commendable that Opus's system encourages musicianship in youngsters and that part of it could be implemented anywhere.
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2005-09-12 19:58
OpusII - Thank you for the detailed description of your band program. I think this is most interesting.
Could you tell us something about the history of your organization? How long has it been active and what were its origins? Are there similar organizations in the Netherlands?
Johng
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Author: Maarten
Date: 2005-09-13 10:24
Hi all
I am also from the Netherlands and most "harmonie-" orchestras are run more or less like OpusII describes, although I don't know of any that own a public bar.
The harmonie I now play in has a bit different history. It originated as part of a large company, where the employees could play in the orchestra. This was not very common as far as I know, but it certainly happened more often. Later people from outside could join as well. When this company went broke (Wilton Feijenoord, the Dutch will probably recognize the name), we have been sponsored a couple of years by another company and recently we became independent. Now we get subsidized by the city in which we are based. We also all pay a yearly contribution of ~125 EUR. The orchestra owns a number of instruments (quite a lot of percussion actually), but most members have their own instrument.
Because we don't have contacts with music schools, it's quite hard to find new members and we're a small orchestra (~25 people playing, not even everyone of those is a member). We welcome everyone who wants to play with us, but we get most new people through networking, so we know who we get.
Maarten
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2005-09-13 11:01
Most Dutch orchestra’s are using a similar system to find new members, we’re one of the larger examples and our education program is probably one of the most advanced in the country. We often change the program to improve it so we get the best result out of the new members.
Our association is started in 1894 by five local farmers, who played a instrument and joined a sacraments procession. They found it to be very enjoyable to play together and started a association that was being funded by the local castle owner, baronesse Dirckinck von Holmfeld. Soon many people joined the orchestra and it was in the year 1897 that they played at their first festival.
During World War II the association shrank very quickly, but in 1945 they where back in business.
In 1976 they decided to buy a old farm to use it for rehearsal. After getting the licenses that they needed and a little work, we had our own café and rehearsal hall. It’s been officially opened on Christmas 1979.
In 1982 we saw that it wasn’t any more possible for the new members to follow the difficult music. In this year we started our youth orchestra.
There will be similar orchestra’s like us witch a café in the Netherlands, but it would be impossible to start one in the year 2005 and further…. We’re very fortunate to have it, it’s a real treasure!
Post Edited (2005-09-13 17:16)
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2005-09-13 14:31
Thank you for the history, OpusII. What a great story!
I imagine there are some bands in the USA with a long history. Anyone out there play in such a group?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-09-13 15:17
Our Tulsa [OK] Community Band started in the mid 1930's, I am told, I was quite unaware of it until the late 1970's+ when I joined it, living some 40 miles away, but with many musical friends in T-Town . With a small number of our local musicians, we started a "company employee" SMALL symphony orchestra from the decline of an older concert band, and received meagre support from its, "Mens Club" in the mid 50's. Happily it began to receive company support, then community support and provides 6-8 good concerts per year, and smaller groups for a wide variety of church music, community musical thater, ballet etc, all with the help from some pro-quality musicians from Tulsa's Local 94 AFM, et al. Our Local sponsors a "Starlight Band" during the summer months, which I would like to play in, but its a small, select group of Pro's !! Our band has a couple of web sites, and functions with a committee and officers, much like the above. Search ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2005-09-13 15:32
In Sioux Falls, we have three adult bands. There is one that is open to anyone, and it is funded by a local college. They have about 100 members, and perform about three concerts per year.
A second band is by invitation only, and is funded through dues of the players, and performs 4 concerts per year. They have about 60 members.
The third is a semi-professional municipal band, and everyone in the band (51 members) gets paid. Membership is by audition, and there was a special city-wide tax enacted in 1919 to pay for the band. We perform 37 concerts each summer, with a different program each concert. This year, our season ran from the first sunday in June through the first sunday in August. We average about 150 at our nursing home/retirement community concerts, and about 350 at our Sunday night concerts in the park. I can't remember our website address, but if you google "Sioux Falls Municipal Band" you can find us.
Sioux Falls is a small city of about 145,000 people.
Chris
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2005-09-13 15:52
Our 'harmonie' was founded in 1873. Actually some political arguments made an even older harmonie (founded around 1850) split into 'we' and 'them'.
If you look around in Belgium you'll notice the following typcial (?) Belgian landscape :
Most 'catholic' orchestra's were being born around 1850, most of the time because they wanted some music for the local 'procession'.
Later towards 1880 many 'liberal' orchestra's were created, because political climate was changing and they wanted to 'free' themselves from the catholics.
The socialist orchestra's came even later (around 1905) They were mainly used in the fight against social problems that existed in the industry that was becoming more important. Mainly in the cities and industrial area, not in the agricultural part of the country.
This political split in orchestra's still really existed when I was young(er).
In the early 1970 every community had a few of these harmonies. Almost all had a catholic one, many a liberal and communities near the cities also a socialist group. Still heavily compeating.
As the politcal and social climate changed, these musicians started to meet eachother more and more without this political barrier.
Also the overall intrest in this type of orchestra's went down, and many couldn't survice and started to disappear.
To be able to survive - and because in general the political 'color' became less importat , and also because afterall we all are musicians in the first place, most orchestra's became 'non - political'
Often you now only find 1 per community. Either because they really started working together, or because the others 'died' and the remaining musicians simply joined the one that survived.
Without discussing my 'original color' I've played, and still play in all sorts, the music is basically the same ;-)
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Author: CJB
Date: 2005-09-13 16:55
I play in 2 concert bands in the UK.
One, which David Peacham also plays in is a true community band. We accept anyone who is capable of reading the part/joining in when they can. We are run by a small committee, on the whole I don't think we have the problem Chris P encounters where the committee self promote beyond their abilities......then again as I play solo clarinet and am on the committee I would say that
The other group is of a much higher standard, we don't hold formal auditions, prospective new members are asked to attend a rehearsal where the conductor and the people sitting around them decide whether they fit in or not.
Both groups charge members a subscription and raise funds through concerts. The better group also receives a generous donation from a sponsor.
Neither group has a training/youth group associated with it. In general in this country younger musicians have access to county groups/schools groups/ music centres etc.
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Author: buffet_tosca
Date: 2005-09-19 12:37
hmm.. i'm from a Secondary Cchool Band in Singapore. We do not "depend" on charities.. we have a committee and they consist of:
-a Drum Major
-a Assistant Drum Major
-a Band Major
-a Assistant Band Major
-a Secretary
-a Assistant Secretary
-a Treasurer
-a Assistant Treasurer
-a Quartermaster/Quartermistress(Instrument)
-a Assistant Quartermaster/Quartermistress(Instrument)
-a Quartermaster/Quartermistress(Accessories)
-a Assistant Quartermaster/Quartermistress(Accessories)
-a Librarian
-a Assistant Librarian
-a Social Welfare
-a Assistant Social Welfare
-a Uniform IC
-a Assistant Uniform IC (which is me..)
we have community bands in our country but i do not know much of them.. you can say that i dun even noe whether they need auditions to get into it.. well.. in my country, Secondary Schools are for students age 13-16/17.. there's a SYF (Singapore Youth Festival) every year but for Secondary schools, it's only held every 2 yrs.. this yr was my first yr in the festival and i'm 14 yrs old.. we have a section leader and an assistant section leader in each section.. they are responsible for notifying the Majors of the reasons of each member of the section who did not turn up for a rehearsal.. reasons like doing group projects are not acceptable.. they are also suppose to teach the new batch of sec 1's who are new to band.. it's not that only section leaders are required to teach the new comers.. the seniors are suppose to contribute too..
the instruments are provided by the school and we can borrow the instruments home whenever we want unless the Quarter Masters/Mistresses have to do the checking of instruments.. we are expected to take good care of the instruments.. wad's more, we do noe have to lease them.. we juz have to sign a form to agree with the terms & conditions.. normally, if an instrument is spoiled, we do not have to pay for the repair costs.. the school pays for them.. reed are provided by the school.. we will have new reeds every term( 3 months) which is not enough.. the reed does "die" after some tyme.. we use Zonda Reeds..
usually, the juniors in our school start with not-so-gd clarinets.. they use the Buffet E11.. but gradually, if u can play well, u will get "promoted" to using the Buffet RC.. if u can play better than some seniors, u would even get "promoted" b4 them.. (like me.. weez..) very honoured..
we all lurve our conductor/band director alot.. he taught us alot of stuff tt we may not get to learn from other band directors.. he makes learning new stuff interesting and easy(even difficult things).. he makes us laugh alot..(though sometymes we might be so stubborn that he gets so fedup wif us that he actuallie SCREAMS..) cool eh? haha.. i used to hate band (though i lurve music).. i joined this CCA because i dun like uniform groups which require hours of physical training under the hot sun.. but that as b4 this Great Conductor came along.. it was a female conductor who was not tt great.. she was as fierce as a lion but lets our band play easy music which are not challenging at all.. i used to skip band.. well.. after our Great Conductor came in, i come to every band rehearsal.. gradually.. i improve alot.. i practice very hard to get his attention.. i'm not embarrassed to sae tt.. which musician doesn't wan to get his/her conductor's attention? when he furst took over our band.. we abt to get into main band after learning the basics.. i mean.. exactly the same dae.. i still remember tt when he tested all the sec 1's, i could play everything he wanted mi to play.. as in tuning, scales.. such things.. after that, he pointed out which of us were eligible for main band.. i was the furst person he pointed out.. he continued to point out some ppl.. after that he saed that since we were newbies,we are allowed to go home.. those who wanted to stay can stay.. the room was in a chaos immediately.. i did not noe wad to do.. i stood up slowly and b4 i knew it, he assigned mi to 1st Clarinet.. the onli sec one to be in the 1st in any section.. i didn't even know wad he means at that tyme.. i juz told mie seniors tt he asked mi to go to 1st Clarinet.. noone reallie believed mi at furts.. they told mi tt it's not possible for a sec 1 to be in 1st for ani section.. when i asked for a 1st clarient score, the librarian gave mi a 3rd Clarinet score instead.. so now.. after 1 long yr.. i'm still staying in 1st clarinet.. i've gort solos.. i can play fast notes better than mie seniors.. though mie intonation is not great.. we are trying to play "5th Suite for Band" by Alfred Reed.. quite challenging.. but wad i reallie wanna play are "Armenian Dance I & II".. i dun mind challenging songs.. well.. i can improve more if i push mieself.. blahblahblah.. sorrie for going out of point.. but i juz have to get this out of mie heart b4 i burst out..
aniwayz.. tt's about it.. we have a few bands which frequently perform at the Esplanade or Victoria Concert Hall or such.. Bands like the "Philharmonic Youth Band".. hehe.. i dunno wad to sae.. again.. i apologize for being out of point juz now.. juz feel like sharing mie joy..
***********************************************************
Evelyn,
Singapore,
Student Clarinettist in a Secondary School Symphonic Band..
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-09-19 18:22
I don't do much down here with groups outside of my own (I do help teach in a local school system's "stage band", and I play bari for a local college's "jazz lab" band), but where I came from up north they had a superb organization in the town of Centralia IL.
Centralia is a fair sized city for "downstate" Illinois, although it is located a bit off of the beaten path. It's about a half hour drive to the place from the "main roads" of the Interstate system, a fact due no doubt to not having a powerful Congressman at the time the roads were drawn out.
In the 1900's early on, it was a major coal mining center and manufacturing hub, but as time went on, the place started into backwater status. Currently, I'd not say it was on life support, but I'd not want to have to sell a house there either, if you know what I mean.
One thing that is a relic of the days when Centralia was a lot more vibrant is their "Centralia Cultural Society" (CSS for short). This was a whole town operation that was endowed by the local Coca Cola bottler (a very profitable business) in the 1940's and 1950's.
The CSS is an umbrella type organization, one that incorporates the local historical society, drama, art, vocal and instrumental music programs and a number of other "gatherings". They don't include the local model railroad operation as far as I know, and barbershop quartetting is curiously absent, but other than that it's pretty comprehensive.
The CSS is run by an oversight board, with a representative from each of the sub-groups sent to same. Each sub-group has its own board as well. There were occasional personality conflicts (and other such problems, as when the choral group's director insisted on conducting both the choir and the orchestra, using the classic "beat for each syllable" arm waving technique that doesn't sit well with musicians), but overall everyone got along just fine.
Their main real property is the Cultural Society Building, a multi-purpose work and rehearsal place on the north side of the town. Other facilities open to them are two outdoor concert venues (one a band shell, the other a landscaped amphitheater in the large Cultural Society Park on the outskirts of the town), a municipal auditorium (part of the high school complex) and (I think) a pavilion in downtown (which is almost dead).
For the ten years or so that I lived in the area (thirty miles away), I was a part of the Centralia Symphonic Orchestra (bass clarinet, third clarinet, sax player), the once a year "big band" that we put together for the wildly successful "Ice Cream Social", and the once a year "Drama Club" musical pit orchestra. We held rehearsals on every Monday night, and it was a community based operation rather than a "audition only" operation. (To draw enough strings in the middle of nowhere USA, you pretty well have to be open to all.)
Their concerts were far better attended than any other community groups that I've been part of, and the yearly musicals, the various festivals and the Ice Cream Social were financial successes as well. But, the key to this was that the group didn't just involve music folks, but rather a considerable percentage of the community as a whole.
In other areas of Southern Illinois were "industrial groups" that used to have similar functions. One was the Miner's Hall in Collinsville IL, where I used to play for musicals and other musical functions as well. However, that died out as far as I can tell at this remove.
One thing to keep in mind is that municipal bands, while very entertaining for the members, aren't all that entertaining to the majority of the general public. Many will sit down for a municipal concert if it's convenient to them (or held as a part of some larger, overarching event like Independence Day proceedings). But, most won't bother to make a special trip to hear music that is "outside of the pop mainstream".
Some efforts on the part of the organization can help deal with this natural bias. One is to program more "pop" stuff that people have heard of. The CSS made it a point to have at least one or two "from the movies" arrangements on every pop concert in addition to old time audience favorites. Playing stuff like "My Heart Will Go On" is boring in the extreme, but people like to hear what they like to hear.
The other thing that the CSS musical groups did very well was to fit in with the CSS activities as a whole. For example, drama, art, choral and music all worked on the annual musical. The city needed only to call to get live music for whatever event they needed it for. And, the overall depth of the entire CSS ensured more interest in the various elements of the program.
During the same timespan that I participated in the CSS, there was a local "college" orchestra that was literally on my doorstep. However, that group only wanted to play the classics, had no permanent home, had trouble attracting the minimum numbers needed to pull it off (imagine "Espana" without a trombone player...), and would not play anything written after 1900 to save its soul. The audience sizes reenforced my decision to spend my time making the trip to Centralia; a lot farther to drive each week but well worth the trip.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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