 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bryris
Date: 2005-09-11 16:41
How do I get that jazz clarinet sound? I have always played in the classical arena and so my sound is smooth and refined.
I want to start working to where I can get that rugged jazz clarinet sound so I can expand into jazz repertoire. Should I try a thinner reed?
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-09-11 17:29
Hello,
Why would you want to change your sound to play a different style of music? I strive to make the best clarinet sound I can when I play jazz and use the exact same set-up when playing the Brahms trio or Sweet Georgia Brown, or A Midsummer Night's Dream. In my opinion, part of the decline of the clarinet in jazz was because of people playing with such a bad sound that noone wanted to hear it. As Duke Ellington said "there are two types of music: good and bad".
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Celeborn
Date: 2005-09-11 17:31
Now, just because you play jazz doesn't mean you have to let your tone go out the window or change your equipment. Jazz can be played very well with a smooth and refined tone; what you should work on is developing a controlled vibrato. The search function lends more on this. As far as equipment, well, you don't need to change anything really, but the standard answer tends to suggest a long lay, open mouthpiece such as Pomarico's Jazz models, am metal ligature, soft reeds (1-3), and a large bore clarinet. The latter category includes the Selmer Centered tone, Conn 444N, Leblanc LL, and many others. They aren't manufactured too much any more, so check ebay. Unless you have a lot of disposable income, however, that can wait. Just open your throat, swing, and try to sound like a singer, vibrato and all.
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-09-11 17:41
Attachment: ShawP2.jpg (84k)
bryris,
In his clarinet method book, Artie Shaw gives some advice (the second page is attached, I think) .
If it worked for Artie, res ipsa loquitur.
Regards,
Hans
PS - I see that my scan was a little anemic. I'll try again later. However, An open mouthpiece and soft reed is NOT what is required, according to Artie.
Post Edited (2005-09-11 17:48)
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Author: William
Date: 2005-09-11 17:52
"Jazz" is the style with which you play--vibrato, scoops, lip slurs, innovative note choice(s), rhythnic freedom, etc--and not the sound, mouthpiece, reed, instrument or even the music. Any tune can be "jazzed up", as demostrated by many a church jazz service. And as for insrument, few years ago, while in New Orleans, a heard a fellow playing some very interesting licks on a set of bagpipes. It may be simply like the immortal Louis Armstrong said, "Jazz is jazz". And it's all style...........and tons of it.
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-09-11 18:07
Jazz doesn't have to sound rugged, ever hear of Benny Goodman?? That guy could go from the concert stage, to a dimly lit bar and still sound amazing (just an example, please to bash me, lol!!!). You can still play jazz with a well refined, centered sound. Purchase a few Goodman, or Shaw CD's and listen to try to mimick (spelling?) what they do. Good Luck!!
Clayton
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-09-11 18:58
Or listen to Eddie Daniels, Ken Peplowski, Don Byron, Paquito D'Rivera.
Well, Don Byron might vary his sound sometimes for effect, but none of these guys tries to sound like a gut bucket.
One of my very favorite CDs is Beautiful Love, by Eddie Daniels. On the back of the CD are two quotations.
From Downbeat: "That airborne clarinet...weightless as thought."
From Jazz Times: "..awesome technique and passionate purpose...Eddie Daniels has done for the clarinet what Wynton Marsalis has done for the trumpet."
There is a rougher sound, if you want to call it that, often associated with the classic or "Dixieland" sound. I would call it a less centered or less focused sound. Some people still strive for that sound today and there have been some posts on the subject, usually mentioning Albert system clarinets.
That is mostly a matter of taste, I suppose. I personally have always liked the Dixieland style of music but not so much the type of tone that is often associated with it. I think the early players had to play with that style just to be heard without amplification. I
If you listen to early Goodman you can hear echoes of the classic jazz style of playing with a tone closer to the concert hall.
Post Edited (2005-09-11 19:01)
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2005-09-11 19:04
I sort of think you can have a rugged and a smooth tone, depending on the situation. I'd say play it how you think you'd sing it. Louis Armstrong clearly doesn't have a classicaly trained voice, but it is amazing and it's real jazz.
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-09-11 19:07
Here's the excerpt from Shaw's Clarinet Method at higher resolution.
Post Edited (2005-09-11 19:19)
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-09-11 20:42
I think that much of the 'jazz' clarinet sound is really the sound of high airflow. The early guys were trying to keep up with blasting brass players, and I'm sure that this, combined with the French tradition in which they were probably taught, contributed much to the brightness and racousness that we are used to. Thus the wide bores, soft reeds and open mouthpieces. Some players even lowered the baffle of their mouthpieces with chewing gum--something that Brilhart's Artie Shaw model also emulated.
The Creole sound was a very smooth and liquid sound, but that's hard to maintain when you're trying to move air like a brass or a sax. I have no problem getting jazz sounds from a #4 reed and a medium facing, and it also holds up better when i have to really BLOW.
It may boil down to stability vs. flexibility. You need enough flexibility in your setup to comfortably accommodate whatever vibrato, smears, etc. that you want to incorporate. And you want to have enough stability in your setup to maintain quality tone. You will have to compromise between the two to get to what you want, just like a photographer has to compromise between magnification and depth of field.
Allen Cole
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-09-11 20:49
Chris, your bringing up Louie brings a whole new dimension to this thread: comparing the possibilities of the clarinet to the possibilities of the human voice.
Yeah, Louie's voice got rougher as he got older. I think it had to do with some condition in his throat or something. (?) But he sang with musicality; he felt the music, sang on pitch, and phrased more or less the way he played.
There are many ways that people use the human voice as an instrument. The range of sounds varies more than what you hear played on the clarinet. Much of that is due to the fact that there is more variation between "instruments;" but some of it is due to different styles of singing--from Dylan to Pavoratti.
It might be fun to compare and contrast the vocal styles of singers who sing jazz, and then to relate it back to the subjest of jazz clarinet.
For a wide contrast how about Bob Dorough (a jazz pianist who sings) versus Mel Torme: By most any standard, Torme had the better voice. But what Dorough does works well.
Ella Fitzgerald versus Billie Holiday.
For a more subtle contrast: Freddie Cole versus Nat Cole. If you have never checked out Freddie Cole I recommend you do so.
There is, however, a basic difference between playing an instrument and singing. (IMHO) The voice, by its very nature, conveys so much of the human personality that it not only invites, but almost requires more latitude in what is considered good singing. (In jazz and popular music, at least.)
A clarinetist is not only dedicated to finding his/her own voice, but also to finding the truest and best voice of the instrument itself.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-11 20:57
Start with a good sound as a basis and then add to that your own style, but adding rather than taking away.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-11 21:16
It's not a sound I can like, same goes for Emma Johnson, I can't find anything to like there at all.
My mum's a fan though, she used to go to see his band play at Tangmere back in the '60s.
I do admire what I hear Jazz players actually doing, but not necessarily how they can sound.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-09-11 21:20)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-09-11 21:28
I'd rather listen to Acker Bilk than some of the UK "classical" clarinetists whose sound I can not get past, as much as I have tried...GBK
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-11 21:38
There are a few good UK players, but only a few.
He says, hailing from the UK himself.
A lady friend of mine went to see the aforementioned 'classical' player do a concert - has to be said that she didn't stay very long by any accounts, not even sure if she got a refund, I would have tried.
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-09-11 22:36
Glenn,
Thanks for the link - very enjoyable.
Hans
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Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2005-09-11 23:20
There are a few good UK players, but only a few.
I cannot believe that a Brit (in fact, anyone) would say this, I honestly can't. I'm constantly astounded by the quality of clarinet playing that comes out of this country. There is such diversity, and soooo many foreigners coming to study in this tiny country that such a sweeping statement must be qualified in some way.
Please list your 'few' good British clarinet players. Maybe list some 'bad' ones as well.
I concur with lots of what has been said on this thread. It's worth bearing in mind how little must be changed to move from a "classical" sound to Acker Bilk's sounds. If you have a good sound, it should be versatile enough for anything...and you should have the tools to be able to move between styles easily.
Post Edited (2005-09-11 23:22)
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2005-09-11 23:55
Too many people have already asked: “I want to be a conductor. Anybody knows where I can get a baton?” Unfortunately they found where to get one.
Your question falls into the same category so won’t tell you.
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Author: Avie
Date: 2005-09-12 00:17
Thanks for the sounds GBK. I also enjoy Acker Bilks Jazz. I havent picked a favorite yet. A lot of good Jazz there IMHO.
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2005-09-12 03:35
All matter of tone, equipment, etc aside, the thing you really need to concentrate on in playing jazz is improvisation. Hopefully, the sound you produce while improvising is the proper sound for that particular music that is being simultaneously composed and performed. Dave Liebman is a master of including variances of sound, resonance etc into his improv.
Furthermore, in regards to louis armstrong. His voice probably got so scratchy because not a day went by when my man louis didn't smoke up some weed. Even on the day he died, played some trumpet and smoked some weed.
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2005-09-12 04:46
I sounds great though. I don't however suggest smokin the reefer to get that authentic armstrong sound...
Post Edited (2005-09-12 05:49)
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Author: stratford
Date: 2005-09-12 10:15
If you listen to Acker Bilk on some of his early Paramount Jazz Band records, you can see what a range of tone he has....Sometimes he is a bit over the top with the vibrato, but he is a truly great jazz clarinetist.
Cheers....
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Author: rockymountainbo
Date: 2005-09-12 14:13
That was my first clip I have ever heard of Acker Bilk. He sounded pretty hot to me. I only dream of being able to play that well. What's the beef with folks not liking Acker Bilk?
Post Edited (2005-09-12 14:29)
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-09-12 14:59
Hi, Rocky:
What's the beef, you ask?
Well, as I see it, Acker Bilk succeeded where they didn't 
- ron b -
______________________________________
( suggested review: Music Appreciation 101 )
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-09-12 15:10
One of the things that repeatedly amazes me on this board is how some who claim to be clarinetists can be so narrow minded as regards "how" a clarinet should sound. I would suggest,bryris, that you get a copy of Woody Allen's video "Wild Man Blues" and listen to it. IF the sound he uses is what you are after then perhaps you have a model. Those of us who like a rough clarinet sound don't always use it in all venues......and we can also appreciate , and use, a sophisticated sound.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-09-12 15:28
Point taken, Bob.
For a really different sound go to the Ethnic board, look at the thread on Bulgerien Clarinet, [sic] and look up some of the artists mentioned.
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