 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-09-05 13:08
I wonder with age (old, really old) what aspect of the Clarinet will get harder or start to go first?
Assuming that the player is healthy (so no arthritis which would obviously affect technique) I wonder what tends to go first and in what order for the oldest of players who played at a high level.
I once discussed that with Gigliotti and he though that upper frequency hearing would most likely be the first thing to go in a senior player assuming good health.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-09-05 13:41
I'm not so sure. It doesn't seem to be unusual for conductors to reach a ripe old age. Perhaps we should come up with a list of very old musicians and what they played. If some instruments are more conducive than others to a long career, we might be able to come up with a theory as to what the real problems are.
Now this is a complete guess - but I wonder whether it isn't the breathing that goes first. If that is true, we'd expect to see violinists have a longer working life than clarinet players. Any evidence for that?
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-09-05 13:56
D B and DP - I may have touched on these ?'s in Roger's thread above. I'm a FIRM believer that playing has increased-considerably my good health and longevity, and plan to continue. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-09-05 14:09
Well absolutely it is good (great) to play at any age as the mind activity alone is priceless. No reason to ever stop playing unless it becomes too painful to do so.
But the question was "what tends to go first?" in a Clarinet player.
Playing is a bit like being an athlete but the age factor is greatly different. Typically athletes are "over the hill" at around 35 whereas a Clarinetist could be just hitting their peak around that time, and for probably more 30 years they stay there (or get better) assuming good health.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-09-05 14:44
Ask Al Galodoro.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2005-09-05 16:29
I think reeds go first (but for me they tend to get softer, rather than harder).
Next is probably the pads, followed by either the corks or the ligature.
Then the mouthpiece.
After that, I'm not sure. Probably the barrel and then maybe the joints.
I would expect that the bell lasts the longest.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-09-05 17:40
David
Although only a high schooler, I believe that the first thing to go would either be ones technique or ones hearing depending on their physical condition and lifestyle. Just a thought...
Clayton
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Author: Chris Chaloner
Date: 2005-09-05 18:26
When I saw the Hampshire Ex-Serviceman's Band play 2 years ago, their Principal Clarinet was 93 - and showed no sign of any of his technique being less than astounding.....
Chris
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2005-09-06 01:12
As a high school student I was a pretty comptent clarinet player practicing and playing 4 to 6 hours a day. In college I put the horn down for 40 years and two years ago started playing again. Here is what I think goes with old age. Your abilty to quickly learn difficult passages, things I know I could play after 5 or 6 runs through at 16 can now take me days. Second, the hearing in my right ear was shot, down about 50%. Now the right ear feeds the left brain the left brain runs the fingers. Getting a hearing aid for my right ear really helped in the learning part.
At the moment I've got about 2000 hours of playing under my belt and maybe with another 1000 hours I'll be back to where I was in high school. By 65 I'll have 5000 hours in and hopefully will be a half decent player. However, I've fallen in love with the bass and my dump the soprano altogether.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2005-09-06 02:07
For me, unfortunately, it will be my eyes. I already have problems with poorly lit areas, too sunny venues, and many times in the morning it takes me a couple of hours (or a cup of Joe) to get the eyes to focus. :o(
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: joannew
Date: 2005-09-06 06:35
Speaking of eyes, I'm convinced that many eye problems are a matter of weak or lazy muscles, not any defect in the retina or lens that can't be minimized by proper training.
When I put my clarinet down for about 5 years during uni and instead spent all my time with my head buried in textbooks or in front of the computer screen, I became nearsighted - books & computers & could read fine, nothing farther. I had to get glasses to read the board in class by my last year of uni. I think reading music is excellent excercise for that middle distance - a little further away than a book, and you're forced to carefully focus & track the notes. Add a conductor at a farther distance, and you've got an even better training regime!
But of course by wearing glasses, even though only part time, my eyes started to accommodate the lenses and again got lazy, becoming more nearsighted, the difference between the two eyes increasing, and necessitating stronger lenses. Now that I'm not in a situation of having to read a blackboard all day, and again excercizing my music eyes (which takes some effort & concentration, first thing to go when I get tired) I have decided to try going without my glasses, and hope that the damage will at least not get worse. (Ever hear of anyone changing to lighter prescription lenses? It doesn't happen!)
There are actually physical therapy courses to train your eyes to have 20/20 vision, used by pilots who can't pass the requisite physical exam needing glasses / contacts.
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Author: rogerb40uk
Date: 2005-09-06 08:16
Actually, nearsightedness sometimes does improve as one gets older.
Normally-sighted people usually become long-sighted after 40something, so it's a sort of compensation as the lenses become less accommodating of varying focal distances.
It is *very* important to have really good lighting when one gets older.
I found that varifocals are great for coping with having to read at varying distances, such as when looking over students' shoulders at computer screens!
Best regards
Roger
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-09-06 08:50
I'm surprised to see no one mention embouchure here. It's one of the most difficult things for adult amateurs to achieve and maintain, and one that I would think would be affected by any loss of muscle tone.
I also base this on a former professional orchestra player who was involved in a local wind ensemble playing in the 3rd clarinets. This seemed astonishing to anyone who knew him, but he told his standmate that he was getting tired of doing what it took to produce stable, in-tune altissimo notes.
Allen Cole
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Author: chuck
Date: 2005-09-07 00:20
Allencole has identified my problem very well. Was it Heifitz who said "when I don't practice one day, I know it . . and if I don't practice two days everyone knows it". I am 76 and sold all the horns about 12 years ago only to buy a clarinet again about five years ago as I wanted to play again. The ham in me cried out for applause. Took me the better part of six months to regain a sound that I could live with. Recently, because of illness, I got away from practicing and the embouchure is shot. I expect it will probably take another six months to get back to what I had reclaimed four and a half years ago. Use it, or lose it. I have also seen in some of my contemporaries a loss of performance capacity due to hearing loss . . heard a one-time very fine cellist essay the Beethoven Triple Concerto and he could get nowhere near the violin or piano. I found that the fingers pretty much took care of themselves, but embouchure and hearing can go down the tubes pretty fast. Chuck
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-09-07 14:32
Daviv B - Being quite OLDT, and believing I qualify to comment on your "basic" ? of 'what goes first', IMHO it all goes together, some just faster, and more aggrevating, than others. Eyes seem to begin in the 40's, hearing in the 60's, stability/walking in the 70's, need for multiple "pill-taking", most any time depending on various age-related infirmities. After my retirement, my wife and I had some very pleasurable foreign travel and a vacation-type home, both of which are now over, partially to stay closer to our numerous doctors. Our kids are now urging us to "get on the list" for housing in a "retirement" complex, as well as getting higher speed internet access !! These are all very individual/couple decisions. Live happily, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-09-11 22:53
Hey Bob, on the CBS News on Friday the newscaster said "with older age (past 65) a recent study were likely to say whatever they want, as changes in the brain prevent older people from being more socially sensitive about what they say.
Hmm, I just turned 42 yesterday and I'm already there...... 
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Author: senior
Date: 2005-09-12 11:39
I will turn 70 in November. What aspect of clarinet playing goes first? Well__ Ahh____eh___That would be______Ah________. What was the question again?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-09-12 13:33
Re: Senior''s Ah? --- Eh?, ?what did you say?, please speak up, and Slower !! That describes my comprehension/reply/confusion quite well, BUT, it came on slowly, perhaps starting in my late 70's/ early 80's. Now I feel I communicate more clearly/precisly by computer, as now. Just not as sharp as I remember [?fairly well?]. My worst current problem is vision, having some Macular Deg. [being treated , somewhat alleviated/slowed by AREDS pill taking] but I recognise that I should NOT drive at night, do avoid it, or ask youngers [our kids and friends] to do it, more safely, such as driving home after Comm Band Reh and Conc's. Playing music DOES help keeping me attentive, also playing Duplicate Bridge a couple times a week, and more PBS and History watching keeps me from getting lost [as in Golden Pond] but in the TV "jungle". An avocation with patent/literature searching, BB etc, helps "stay in touch". My Philosophy, Just DON'T give up !! I do Go On and On, is anyone still listening ?? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2005-09-12 22:29
Bill28099 said, in part, " However, I've fallen in love with the bass and my dump the soprano altogether." Bill, I am inclined to consider that "love" mentioned as being a product and subject of our discussion topic. At 80 (next month and disregarding my RA and upper false teeth plus hearing aids) my upper frequencies are gone (Bass still sounds good though ), fingers much less flexable, inability to stand for long periods (a bass peg and sitting is really good)--So I also can really relate to your love of Bass. So, what comes next already? Should I double on precussion?
Bob A
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