 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: davedmg
Date: 2005-08-29 01:51
I regularly get an airlock in my new Bb Arioso clarinet after I've practiced for a half-hour or so. I don't recall this happening with my ancient Evette.
The sound stops as if it were being blocked. The airlock seems to be connected with the amount of condensation in the mouthpiece and maybe even in the barrel and joint connections. It seems that if I swab everything out the problem goes away. What causes this, say you woodwind experts? -- Dave
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-08-29 01:59
AHA - somebody else with the same problem that happens to me!
At least, it sounds the same. I've posted about this problem before. It has happened to my clarinet last summer, and once this summer. I had it at the tech several times last summer - all the pads were replaced with synthetic ones, then I tried some new mouthpieces. The problem did not recur; I assumed it was fixed.
Then - this summer, under similar conditions of heat, humidity, and a lot of playing/condensation, it happened again. I'm going to send it to a more reputable tech this time. I have a suspicion that there is a crack that only opens up under particular conditions. The previous tech thought so, too, but could not find one.
It was suggested by the board last year that I should check out the register key vent, which I did, and the swabbing seems to help in that regard as well.
With yours, do you get some warning that it's coming? Do you squeak on notes for which there is no other reason?
Sue Tansey
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-08-29 02:10
One possibility: Make sure that there is some play between the adjusting screw on the throat G# key and the A key beneath it. If the adjustment is too fine the slight expansion of the A pad due to heat and humidity can lift the G# pad clear of its tone hole--causing an egregious leak!
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2005-08-29 02:15
I've never heard of airlock before - are you referring to a LACK of airlock, as in, leaks?
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Author: davedmg
Date: 2005-08-29 02:24
Sue:
I think I DO start to squeek before the airlock. I'll pay more attention when I next practice. -- Dave
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-08-29 02:25
If you are speaking of the feeling that the instrument is being very resistant and you can't get seem to get its full sound out of it, then I know what you mean. I usually attribute this to a waterlogged reed or some watery tone holes/pads and usually get out a different reed and/or swab out and/or use cigarette paper between holes and pads and/or clean the mouthpiece by using cool water and sometimes a cotton Q-tip. Maybe this isn't what you meant, though.
-Tyler
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Author: davedmg
Date: 2005-08-29 02:26
Larry:
Thanks for your insight. I will check it out and let you know. -- Dave
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Author: davedmg
Date: 2005-08-29 02:31
Tyler:
No, the sound just stops, as if the air has nowhere to go! But your comments about waterlogged tone holes and cigarette paper swabs may be right on target. I will be more observant next practice. Thanks! -- Dave
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-29 07:58
Sounds like your getting tired and tense, your embouchure is tightening up while the reed is getting too soft and closing up against the mouthpiece.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-08-29 10:28
Another 4 possibilities is that the throat A key sp;ring is rusty, or when the key closes, it jams up against a small wall worn in the groove in the timber, or the pivot tube is binding from rust or gummy deposits. All of these can stop the pad from fully closing on an intermittent basis. The last two of these could also happen with other normally-closed keys, such as side keys.
When you have this problem, have you tried doing a blow test on the upper section with the lower end blocked. If water is associated with leaks, then you will hear the air bubbling past the water. If not, but you detect that air is leaking, then press on each key cup until you find the one that alters the leakage. Check that pad.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-29 11:03
Try handing the clarinet to another player and see if they still experience the "air lock" with their mouthpiece, reed, and endurance.
If so, it's the Clarinet, if not, it's you.
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Author: davedmg
Date: 2005-08-29 22:02
LarryBocaner and Other Airlock Sleuths:
By George, Larry! I think you've got it! I backed the adjusting key off a tiny amount (just enough space to see some light), and the problem got lots better.
I still haven't tried the cigarette paper swabs, but I think that idea has merit, too. I looked down the upper joint after practice and could hardly believe all the condensation in there! I also found some residue building up around the lower joint tone holes, so the pads must be getting wet and/or dirty too.
Very enlightening excercise! -- Dave
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Author: davedmg
Date: 2005-08-29 22:10
Sue Tansey:
I do start to squeek before the airlock! Check the G#/A adjusting screw as per Larry's advice. It really helped my problem. -- Dave
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Author: senior
Date: 2005-08-30 18:03
I also play the Arioso and have had the airlock happen to me. My problem was a saturated reed. A saturated reed becomes to soft and will close up the mouthpiece if the piece has a close tip. The problem can be solved by useing a mouthpiece with a more open tip or increase the reed strenght slightly. I did both and the problem has not returned.
Senior
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-08-30 20:31
Thanks, Dave, I will. It would be amazing if that's all the problem is.
Sue
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-30 21:07
That was happening with the Buffet E-11's when they were using the plastic (teflon?) screws for that key.
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-08-30 21:31
This is particularly interesting because the horn it's happening on to me is an Evette-Shaeffer from the 1970's. I also have an Evette Master Model on which there is no problem.
Sue Tansey
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Author: davedmg
Date: 2005-08-30 21:46
DavidBlumberg:
The adjusting screw on my Arioso is also made of a white plastic which appears to be quite soft: its previous position has left a little crater in its surface. -- Dave
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Author: clarisax
Date: 2005-08-31 04:10
this happened to me when i tried to play with a rico 2.5 beginner reed on my very closed mouthpiece that i usually use a size 5 v12 with. i think the problem has more to do with the reed and mouthpiece than anything. for me i tried to play and the reed just seemed to blow shut because it was so soft. it was almost like what would happen if i just randomly hit the reed with my tongue to stop the note from sounding. try a harder reed, or maybe a better quality one anyway.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-08-31 12:48
Sounds like the problem is not due to the make of clarinet but to the lack of a teacher who would correct the problem almost instantly.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2005-08-31 18:11
I dunno, if I found an airlock in my clarinet, I'd sure want to send a nanobot through there to see where it leads, and hunt around the house and the neighborhood to see what kinds of Things have been getting in, too.... Just think of it, you might have illegal aliens from Ganymede living in your sock drawer by now! The horror! The horror!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2005-08-31 18:11)
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Author: davedmg
Date: 2005-09-02 20:14
Sue Tansey:
Did the adjustment on the G#/A key solve your airlock problem? -- Dave
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-09-02 23:39
Dave -
I won't be able to tell, I don't think, until the conditions replicate themselves. It only occurs after a certain period of playing time during very hot, humid weather, indoors or out. So, that might mean next summer - unfortunately, the repairs I made after last year's debacle weren't shown to be ineffective until this situation occurred again this summer. I had thought the problem was eliminated until that dreadful day.
I am hopeful, however. I still think that I will take John Moses' advice and send it off to NYC for a checkup by an expert.
Has it cured your problem? And was weather a factor for your clarinet?
Sue Tansey
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-09-03 14:00
I do find the use of the term "airlock" interesting..... But, I must pass on the following personal experience: After re-assembling my horn following rehearsal break I immediately experienced "airlock". I temporarily panicked thinking the worst. Shortly I pulled the barrel/mp assembly and sighted down the bore where I noticed the obstruction. It was the nylon toe end of my wife's stocking that I use to prevent the folding stand from scratching my bell. deja vu on the "Sock it to me" quip
Bob Draznik
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Author: RonLivonia
Date: 2005-09-03 18:20
Dave,
I've had a similar problem with one of my Bass Clarinets. It occurred when playing middle of the staff B,C,D.... Turned out the rt. hand Bys/Sliver key was extremly sensitive, any contact or touch would open the pad slightly.. The effect was like the airstream instantly stopped. Might want to check it out.. Never had a problem with any others.. Soprano or Bass..
Good luck,
Ron
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-03 21:58
Another thing to check is for sideways play between the pillars in the throat A key barrel- there should be some play, and not tight between the pillars - reason being that when wood moves through moisture, cold, etc, wood will move widthways rather than lengthways, and any keys mounted between pillars going across the body that are already tight will bind when subjected to extreme conditions.
Plastic instruments are much worse in this respect as plastic expands/contracts in every direction, and it's best to have end play between every pillar, and the amount of play is relative to the length of key - longer keys need more end play than shorter keys.
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Author: davedmg
Date: 2005-09-04 01:25
Thanks to all of you clarinet wizards for helping me solve my problem. The response has been overwhelming.
The Clarinet Pages is an incredibly valuable resource to clarinet hackers like me. I've learned more about Things Clarinet through its pages in one month than I have in the previous 50 years. -- Dave
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