 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-20 14:47
Can someone please post detailed pictures of their Selmer basset horn low D and C keys (both thumb keys and the LH D lever) and all the linkages involved as I need to add the LH D lever and both thumb keys to mine (serial number 879), and I want to keep it as authentic and true to Selmer as I can. All music shops of worth I know of don't stock Selmers as they're too expensive and the last new one I saw was back in 1988.
This basset horn never had thumb keys originally, being pretty much a copy of the early Buffet basset horns, and all the downward extention keys were for the little fingers, although a crude attempt at a low D thumb key was added (as well as a sling hook ring on the thumbrest - out of mild steel rather than nickel silver!)
The low D touch was in the same position as where the LH Eb/Ab key would now be, though I have since removed the bridge to the low D and soldered the remaining link from the LH lever to the Eb/Ab key as current practice dictates. Only problem is I can't currently play the low D (I can still get Eb and Db, but not D) unless I close the key with my right knee, which isn't ideal by any standard, similar to how some people get the low Bb on their plastic Bundy or Yamaha oboes.
Low C is only obtainable playing low Db (RH cluster - in the position the low Eb should be, but that is next to the RH F/C key - having 6 keys in this cluster) and adding the LH F/C key - but I want to link this all up to a thumb key (the lower of the two thumb keys I'll be adding) to make going from low G to low C easier.
Low F to low C isn't a problem as long as F is taken with the left hand and
the low Db key is added.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-08-27 08:06)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-08-20 16:10
Chris, My acquaintance with the Selmer Basset Horn is much earlier, played a bit of Mozart, and recall "working-out" low note fingerings !! None of my [so-far-found] Selmer cl brochures show any pics of their more recent B H's, any good-sized music store should have some. On their www.Selmer.fr web site, the best I've found so far is a VG pic of their Low C bass cl. likely quite similar?. Hopefully some proud-prosessors can give you more help. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-20 16:31
The current Selmer bassets are largely similar to mine, though now plateau keywork is the norm, my old Selmer has ring keys and a plain (unarticulated)C#/G# key. The selmer.fr site does indeed have the best pics I can find (but they only show the 'business side' of their instruments).
I'm also thinking of adding the perforated fingerplate for LH1 (with a 2mm hole) to put the altissimo E and F in tune - I have to use this fingering for the F - throat G# 123 G# ooo Eb otherwise it's almost a semitone sharp.
Slightly off topic, but I did have a connection from LH 2 to the top plate on my Buffet Prestige bass (and also a bar added to the C#/G# cup to connect it to the bridge key to facilitate a B-C#/ F#-G# trill), so the altissimo notes can be played by lifting LH1 instead of rolling to uncover the hole (which can be disconnected by backing off the adjusting screw) so I can use standard altissimo fingerings from C# to F - maybe I might do this to my basset at some point.
Tuning on Selmer basset horns isn't great (especially from low G downwards), the last new one I tried back in 1988 has the same tuning problems and this old one of mine, and mine has had various things done to the toneholes over time.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-08-20 16:40)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-26 20:06
bill28099, what's the layout on your Series 9?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-08-26 20:08)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2005-08-27 07:21
Hi Chris!
If someone doesn't come up with photos, I could take photos of my Series 9 Selmer basset horn mechanism. It is my recollection that I heard that the recent Selmers were slightly different in mechanism but I don't know it for sure as mine is the only one I've ever looked at closely. It would probably be easier to email them than post them as I haven't done that.
I've been quite happy with the tuning although I recall that I probably will put a little tuning stuff in one or two of the lower holes.
Since I gotten it, I have found no one to play with on it as I'm very busy playing on other instruments such as the oboe.
Please let me know how I can help you!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-27 07:48
Wes,
Any help is welcome! Yeah, mainly photos of the linkages from the thumb keys to the rest of the mechanism, positions of pillars, guides, etc.
Shame (I assume) you're across the Atlantic, there's no chance of me popping round to see it or borrowing it.
I'm waiting for the Selmer workforce to go back to work, my dad lives next door to an outworker, and with any luck should be able to get the castings/CNC key parts so I can add the extra mechanisms.
Do the Series 9 Bassets have the LH Low D lever below the F/C key (which doubles as the low Db-C link)?
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2005-08-27 13:54
Chris P,
At the moment the horn is at the house and I'm at my apartment on the coast. It is quite different from the more modern horns as there is only one thumb key. It also has the maddening quirk that the right hand lower Eb and D keys are reversed from the Buffet bass.
The horn has also been modifed so that Ab/Eb can be played with the Left hand pinky finger, on the original horn I believe that lever actuated low D.
If you wait until later on in the week I could post a photo of the linkages and keying.
I'm in the same situation as Wes as I spend most of my playing hours on the Bb and bass and have barely touched the basset since buying it a while back. My general impression of the horn is that it's a "pig" to play and the key spacing is strange and uncomfortable. I now have a copy of the Stamitz basset horn concerto so I'll start to work on it when fall comes and I'm not spending so much time on the bike trails.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2005-08-28 06:57
Hi Chris!
Tkhe serial number of my BH is T64xx which is in the 1963 to 1964 era.
Low C requires that low Db key plus the LH F/C keys be operated.
There is no LH Ab/Eb key - instead the LH key where this would be makes the low D. The low D is alternately made by the sole thumb key. The LH key pushes a lever on the thumb key which has a lower on the horn lever driving the low D pad and an adjustable lever to the low Eb pad.
Daniel Leeson was not in love with this mechanism and urged Selmer to change it as I recall his archived posts. He may have had two of these instruments. Personally, I'm not much bothered with it as I'm used to sliding and slipping to get the job done. Just be happy you don't have to push all those thumb keys on a bassoon. You might try to find Mr. Leeson's many writings on the basset horn.
I'm not serious about the bass clarinet but the easiest thumb system I thought I saw was the one on some of the lesser known models with four thumb keys on the corners of a square. However, I recently succumbed to some serious lobbying and spent hours tuning on an old Kohlert converted to low C for a friend. Old Glen Johnston had made the extension before he died.
If you need photos, I will need your email address. Or just pop over to Redondo Beach, CA to take a look at it. Good Wishes!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-28 10:02
Bill and Wes,
From what I gather the only difference between the Series 9 and my basset is the Low D thumb key. Mine was fitted with a very crude one of these, the pillar holes drilled out using a twist drill, and the pillars themselves were different heights, the thumb touch made from a sawn-off F#/C# lever head, bent round to a simlar position as the low F correction key on full Oehlers, the other end raised the link bridging the D lever to the D key. One good thing is that the key barrel was made from silver tubing, like some of the other keys (Sp key, Throat A key and some of the side keys) - so I've got spare silver barrel (1.9mm inside diameter, though I can take this out to 2mm if I need to).
I've since removed this bridge. All the keywork is unplated nickel silver and I'll keep it like this. There was metal fatigue on the low Eb touch, but I've broken the touch off, cleaned the fracture and soldered it back together in a fairly invisible repair, it only shows up when the touch has tarnished.
I think the current Buffet bassets keywork arrangement (as is their Prestige basses - and the more recent Selmer basses) is an excellent layout, but I won't be copying this as there's a lot more surgery involved, not to mention the bassoon-like push rod going through the body they have.
The more recent Selmer basset keywork is what I see is the only possible solution without changing too much, as the RH little finger cluster is the same on modern Selmers as mine (#879), having on the top row Ab/Eb - F/C - Low Eb, and the bottom row is F#/C# - E/B - Low Db - still their current practice on bassets (both clarinets and horns) I think.
And my 10S Basset clarinet had the layout I'm familiar with and want to copy - two thumb keys and the LH D, not to mention this basset clarinet also had the same LH low Eb lever (next to the LH Ab/Eb lever) as the full Mazzeo models, but there's no room for this.
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