 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2005-08-26 05:09
I found RICO now sells two kinds of clarinet mouthpiece. La Voze and Graftonite. The latter is designed by Brilhart, they say on their web catalog.
Searching graftnite on the web, I found this is a name of mineral.
http://www.webmineral.com/data/Graftonite.shtml
Ordinarily blank manufacturers, such as Zinner, do not show what materials they use as bulk, bonders, or additives. Rico's Graftonite is very interesting from this view point.
This is a cheap and strong(does not chip) mouthpiece, they say.Is there anyone who tried one?
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-08-26 06:08
i recomend these mouthpieces be used as a doorstop....
they are junk, and in fact it's shameful that the Rico company insists on marketing them at all
donald
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-08-26 06:16
If you are thinking of the Rico Royal mouthpieces -
The Rico Royal mouthpieces have to be the ABSOLUTE WORST mouthpieces ever offered for sale, anytime, anywhere, any century.
When first marketed in 1986, they were given out by the thousands - free to band directors, most of whom immediately threw them in the trash.
(I had thought I got rid of all of mine - but just noticed I still have 4 new ones on the shelf in my studio. I truly hope they are not multiplying.)
They were Made from Graftonite™ - a graphite/rubber compound.
They should have left the graphite in the pencils.
Thick rails, thick tip, very resistant blowing, badly designed facings (the A7 had a tip opening of 1.40 and a facing length of 20mm), raised reed table, thin sound - nothing good whatsoever about them, except that they were (sadly) indestructable.
Toss it in the landfill where it belongs.
I think that the the half-life of lead is 22 years...GBK
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-26 08:58
I chose a (new) Selmer Goldentone over the Graftonite (or 'Graftonshite' as we called them) when I first bought my knackered old B&H 2-20 back in 1986 - the lesser of two evils? At least the Goldentone looked like a mouthpiece, and it was made from higher density plastic.
I think landfill sites are already at capacity, what with all the westlife and other manufactured acts cds filling them, but the arguement there could arise that Graftonite were made with the idea to help develop a talent and designed to be an important part of a real instrument, not a blatant display of zero talent where only the record industry profits.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-08-26 09:37)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-08-26 11:55
Everything GBK says is absolutely true, and add to that: they cannot be refaced! The plastic material turns to fuzzy chunks when sanded, so the Ricos are the world's first Completely Hopeless Unsalvageable Mouthpieces (CHUM).
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2005-08-26 13:06
Same mouthpiece for bari sax is OK.....I've used one and see other people out there using them professionallyl! They are powerful, cheap and unbreakable. Considering they were 10% of the cost of some competitors they were a good deal. The alto sax mouthpiece was less successful......playable but tonal problems. John
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-26 13:12
I remember the tenor player touring with Pink Floyd endorsing them back in the late '80s.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-08-26 14:05
I did a few minutes of patent searching for graftonite AND "cl-related terms", the few that were retrieved seemed to be related to inorganic, metal phosphates, one "defining" Graftonite [a trademark??] as Fe3[PO4}2, iron phosphate. One of it's uses [utility statement] was as a "pigment" [a ?blending-additive?] to a ?major? material. Reading "between the lines", one could assume it's being added to a hard rubber for cl mp making?? If anyone has seen any patent #s, or tradmark, or other published, info [Hiroshi's and GBK's posts], etc, please let me know, [E-M, prob.] so as to reduce my search time expenditure. Velly interesting, will pursue TKS, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-26 14:08
Isn't it just a fancy term for recycled plastic?
If I find one I'll burn it to see what it smells like, probably similar to ABS I'd imagine.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-08-26 15:04
Not really, Chris, the Fe phosphate is also described as a "ceramic" and the Goldstein patent [1993] US 5,192,821, in which a Brilhart advertisment is cited, speaks of hard rubber compositions, with ceramics, [retrieved by "graphite!"] for mp mfgr. Its the closest I've gotten so far. Will continue, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-26 15:09
If only they could have made a better mouthpiece with the stuff.
Incidentally, I saw a Brian Ackerman B&H 1010 copy mouthpiece being used last night, made from a mould. The plastic was dark grey as opposed to the green-with-age colour of the ebonite originals!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-08-26 15:37)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2005-08-27 07:39
Some quite good tenor and baritone sax players have used the gray metallite Brilhart mouthpieces, usually after they have been refaced. They were obviously done by machinery not by hand in the factory. I've refaced a few of them with pretty good results although I prefer Berg mouthpieces for myself. Brilhart was kind of a genius, actually.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-08-27 13:49
The mineral website by Hiroshi does describe Graftonite as a Fe/Mn/Ca based mineral. However, Graftonite with a trademark could define just about anything including graphite added to hard rubber. The mineral could also be added to a thermoset plastic as filler. I guess we still don't know for sure what the trademarked material is. I personally doubt that "recycled plastic" defines it although during mouthpiece mfg. the rejects are surely reground and reused.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-08-27 14:46
TKS, BobD, yes, the patent I found mentions the calcium phosphate {CaPo4}, dont recall the Mn "salt", prob the TM'd name includes many metal phosphates and mixtures, double salts etc. There is a Grafton, Mass. near Wocester, possibly another or so in the New England states, coincidence ?? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-08-27 15:59
Just checked:
I pulled one of the Graftonite mouthpieces off the shelf in my studio and looked at the box.
It reads: "The all new Graphite/Rubber compound GRAFTONITE™ resisits common chipping and warping. For anything short of abuse, we offer a Full Lifetime Warranty. If something goes wrong in normal use, send it back to our factory and we will gladly replace it with a new one"
...GBK
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-08-27 17:15
Sounds like a rugged, warranteed doorstop to me -- very handy to have around the house (for those irritating doors that keep shutting on their own).
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-08-27 17:39
drill a few holes in them , add some treble hooks, and you have a nice fishing lure
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-08-27 17:59
OK, you jokers, GBK has solved our inconsequental question, Gosh Sakes, I had hoped it was more than pigmented hard rubber. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-08-27 20:22
Don, we're all happy for you. Should I ever receive one of these mouthpieces I promise to send it to you rather than make a doorstop or fishing lure out of it.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-08-27 21:42
TKS, Dave, Next trip to T-Town, I'll check my WW f[r]iends junk box for a Br-Gr, out of refacing curiousity. Also will look for another of the OLDT Selmer multi-adjustable ligs, for a good-looking metal S Runyon [slim] alto sax mp, I found in my junk, the only thing that fits it {so far] is a sop Eb cl lig !! Do you have one??, naw, u'r too young! OK, GBK?, or delete ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-08-28 00:53
Don,
Re: Selmer expandable-metal ligs: I have two (both fit Bb clarinet though a bit tightly, so MIGHT fit a metal Runyon alto, not sure without checking).
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-08-28 11:54
Thanks GBK for the definitive answer. I'm somehow under the impression that graphite or "carbon black" is added to auto tire compounds also. May help release properties during molding.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-08-28 13:54
Yes, at least partially true, BobD. About the first thing we students of chemistry learn is to study a survey of the chemical elements. Reading our Chem/Phys Text/Hand books is a priority. In the long paragraph on carbon, mention is made of the 3 basic "allotropic" forms of carbon, amorphous, graphite and diamond. Yes, "carbon black", exceedingly fine particles of amorphous carbon, is blended with many of the various elastomers, nat and syn rubbers in particular, to produce tire rubbers of improved life and performance [hysterisis considerations]. Working for one of the research leaders in this technology has been rewarding in many ways. "nuff?, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2005-08-29 23:58
I like the graftonite for bari sax, but prefer the metalite. I can't imagine it would sound too good on clarinet.
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Author: Kel
Date: 2005-08-30 01:25
Can a Graphtonite also be used to write comments on the charts? I always lose my pencil.
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