 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: claricat
Date: 2005-08-20 13:43
I'm in a community orchestra and just started looking for a good used A Clarinet (used, because I didn't think I could afford a good new one). I've been checking around, not having much luck, but then found that the biggest music store in town has two Selmer A clarinets (a Series 10 and a Series 10S) which are actually NEW but the store clerk said that the 2 horns have been in the shop since the 1970's never bought - which seems odd since this is a large city - but the clerk thought it was because everyone was bent on getting Buffet instead. So I tried both of them - both played better in the lower register and seemed somewhat resistant in the upper register. Also, the middle B note on both horns was weak. Are both those problems common for that make of horn? Otherwise I liked them fairly well (my B flat I've been playing for years is a Selmer Centered Tone, so I am used to Selmers). I liked the Series 10 a little better than the 10S.
The store is charging around $800 for either horn...does anyone have input on whether this is a good deal? Since the horns have been in the shop for over 20 yrs would it be acceptable for me to try to talk the price down?
Also, one thing I noticed about the Series 10 was that the barrel was a real tight fit and says "10S" on it whereas the other 3 pieces of the horn say just plain 10. Does that mean the barrel isn't the right one - shouldn't it just be a plain 10 not 10S? Also, wondered how to find out when the horn was made: the serial number on the Series 10 is Y7220.
Thanks!
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-20 14:01
A Clarinets can feel like you are blowing through an elephants trunk if they aren't good.
I owned a Selmer 10 A Clarinet that felt like that when I was a kid.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-20 14:02
Y7220 is from around 1975-76.
I think the Series 10 has a larger bore than the 10s and some of the tone hole layout is different, but the bore is not as wide as the Series 9, 9* and in comparison to a Centered Tone, the bore on Series 10s are minute.
The barrel should have '10' on it, not '10S', so I think you should be able to get the price down lower than what they're asking, although $800 isn't a bad price, but could be better.
I must admit that both my Centered Tone A and Series 9 A clarinets are a bit duff across the break in comparison to the Bbs of the same type, maybe the speaker tube is pushed to accommodate the longer bore length for this note on the A clarinets.
Also as a matter of course, the standard throat Bb is hissy, so I use the side Bb 'trill' key for a better, clearer note when I can.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-08-20 14:09)
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Author: Ralph
Date: 2005-08-20 19:21
I believe a New Old Stock instrument for $800 is a great price, especially for a clarinet in the key of A. Used clarinets in A on e-bay often go for more than $800 and in addition require repair. Yes the barrel may not be the right barrel for that model, but you can probably have a custom barrel maker craft one for you for $200 or less.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2005-08-20 22:02
What kind of mouthpiece are you using to try these clarinets and how old do you estimate it to be? Both of these instruments should have considerably narrower bores than your Centered Tone. If you are trying them with your normal mouthpiece and it is an older mouthpiece designed to be played with a large-bore Selmer, it could be that it doesn't match either the Series 10 or the 10S very well. That could explain some of the stuffiness you are experiencing in the clarion range. If you are using a mouthpiece contemporary with your Centered Tone, perhaps someone can suggest a more modern mouthpiece of similar resistance that would be a better match for the A's. With the right mouthpiece, you might actually find you prefer the 10S.
Also, if the clarinets have been sitting in the shop for 20 years without any maintenance, they may have dried out more than a little. That would also affect the way they play. I agree that the barrel is probably not original on the Series 10 but I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker. You can experiment at your leisure with some after-market barrels if you think they will make an improvement.
I think you are in a good position. If one of these instruments plays pretty well for you, the $800 asking price for a NIB Selmer professional A clarinet is not a bad price to begin with -- probably about what you would pay (or perhaps a bit less than what you would pay) for a new Buffet E11 A from one of the mail-order houses. Given the mismatched barrel for the Series 10 and the time the instruments have been sitting in the store, you could try negotiating a lower price. If the store won't go for that, they might at least give you some free set-up maintenance on the one you choose. (Actually, they should give you that, anyway.) While I am generally in the camp that believes most clarinetists oil their bores too much, I suspect that, given the time these have been sitting in the store, they would benefit from a good oiling and some pads might not be seating well. You are in a particularly good position to negotiate if you are willing to walk away from the deal. Right now, the store has a couple of fairly expensive decorations. If they could turn those into cash that they can invest in something that will turn over faster, it is to their advantage to do so. Be warned, however, that some store owners are stubborn.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: claricat
Date: 2005-08-23 19:39
Thanks for the replies. Ya, both of the A clarinets have a hissy throat B-flat besides the stuffy upper register. But I am going to visit the store again and try different mouthpieces with the horns, to see if I like the horns better at all, because it does seem like $800 is a pretty good price. My mouthpiece I use on my Bflat is a Richard Hawkins which I got about 6 years ago. I hope the store has several mouthpieces that I can try. Ya, JNK: that's a good idea to see about oiling and checking pads since the horns have been there so long.
If I can get one of these 2 horns to play to my satisfaction, I can just buy one and avoid the time & bother of trying to find a good used “A” on eBay or somewhere.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-08-23 21:18
Hello,
That seems like a good price for the instruments, but, of course, try to talk them down. A good repairman can take care of the stuffiness on certain notes. As Ben Armato told me, the most important thing to look for is the e at the bottom of the staff. If it's in tune or slightly high, everything else can be adjusted. Dr. Allan Segal's barrels are great--I would recommend them for your new clarinet, if you purchase.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-08-23 21:52
redwine,
I always heard the low F was the major problematic one to watch out for. Was I misinformed or is it close enough to the E that it should just be 'watch out for both'?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-23 21:59
They're certainly both ones to watch out for, especially on full boehms (I'm thinking of adding a thumb key and a system of automatic vent keys similar to the type fitted on full Oehler systems to sort both my Series 9s out where these notes are concerned).
At least on the standard versions the low E should be in tune.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-08-23 22:30
Hello,
I meant the e one octave above low e. Sorry if I was unclear--I've forgotten my college classes about numbers indicating which octave you're in.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-08-23 22:41
Ben,
As I re-read your post, I understand now what you meant. You said "bottom" I thought "of the clarinet". My mind misled me. However I have never heard of this before. Watching that particular E. Seems a bit of an oddball theory to me. Almost like an old wives tale.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-23 22:53
I wonder how many other wind istruments have as many 'E's?
As long as there's plenty of venting for the E (bottom line treble clef) and the middle C below that, these should be alright - maximum 3mm venting, anything less than 2mm venting will make them both stuffy - but that's the problem with Boehm systems - these notes issue from a small tonehole covered by a pad as opposed to the larger fingerholes on non-Boehm clarinets.
Playing on too hard a reed will make the bottom register fuzzy.
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