 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2005-08-04 14:03
"Textbook" reed placement says that you should see a sliver of mouthpiece tip above the reed tip. Of course, placement should be what works best for you, but anything too different from "textbook" placement will give you really poor reed response.
Ligature tightness is more subjective. Too tight will restrict reed vibration and could make parts of the lig touch the reed that shouldn't be touching. Too loose and you'll blow the reed off the mouthpiece when you play (happened to me at a concert on the very first note of the gig -- had a bad slippage problem that night. For some reason my Bonade and my Greg Smith don't get along). If you have a two-screw lig, play around with varying levels of tightness between the two and see what gives you the best response.
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-08-04 14:30
I've found that the place to start is to tighten up the ligature screw(s) snug and then back off 1/4 turn. This is usually close to optimum.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-08-04 14:57
Good advice above. I spend quite a bit of time on reed positioning, yes to a little-bit of mp black showing above the reed, which may depend on the width of the tip-flat, for secure closing. I also pay close attention to the reed-butt centering on the table. Either of these may not be "optimum" [research needed?] but are reproducible and play well. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-08-04 16:43
All the above are good. Even mouthpiece refinishers have different opinions about where the mouthpiece "tip" is located. If you get the reed too high it blows harder.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-08-04 16:44
I've always tried to line up the reed to the tip of the mouthpiece. Some people play around with having it above, for various odd reasons. Try as recommended and then try other ways and play the way it best suits you as a player. I don't recommend getting into the habit of pushing the reed up above the tip. That really hinders correct tonguing. Just below the tip or right at it work best. If you need other variances, try reed strengths.
Ditto on the ligature tightening.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-04 16:56
Depends entirely on the design of the Ligature.
Gigliotti Ligatures for instance aren't made to be put on tightly (they can slip upwards).
Dale Underwood tightens uo the Rovner Ligature really tightly (Sax Virtuoso) my student told me.
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Author: D
Date: 2005-08-04 17:17
If the reed tip is slightly below the mp tip, then when you tongue isn't there a problem with the reed not sealing on the tip because it is too short?
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-08-04 21:34
You mean the top of the tip or the bottom of the tip?
Bob Draznik
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-08-04 23:35
Also, play around with positioning of the ligature. Meaning closer towards the tip, or closer towards the bottom of the mouthpiece. And while you're at it, why not try putting the ligature on backwards (screws on the back), or even sideways? May as well exhaust as many possibilities as you can in order to find YOUR best combination.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Burt
Date: 2005-08-05 02:25
I don't believe that the ligature can be too tight. (If it slipped, I would put it on too low, and tightened it until it slipped to the right position, if that can be done. And if it's extremely tight, it might warp the mouthpiece.)
The ligature is supposed to stop the reed from vibrating. If it's loose, you get vibration under the ligature; this gets damped out, and you're wasting energy and get a dead sound.
I put some ligatures on backwards to get the gap and the screws in the back. Maybe the gap creates uneven pressure on the reed. I don't know.
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-08-05 04:11
I do just about what Ken Shaw described.
I, IMHO think a ligature can EASILY be too tight. Most of my students crank them down way too tight and I really do believe that doing that inhibits some reed response. An inverted ligature, as explained by Burt, helps to reduce this but too tight is too tight.
-Tyler
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2005-08-05 13:15
If you've ever broken a Harrison ligature, you know there's such a thing as "too tight."
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-08-05 14:37
First off, in response to the original question: You should never flush your reed with the mouthpiece...period....regardless of how dissatisfied you are with either of them. For Alexi: Putting the lig on backwards was tried by some of my fellow players back in the 40's....1940's , that is. Caused quite a stir. Of course the lig can be tightened excessively; that's why I'm afraid to even try the vintage Harrison that a good friend presented to me. Better to let it reside in a jewel box knowing that if I did use it I would sound so good that it would astound the world. Oh, is it really true that the lig should stop the reed from vibrating?
Bob Draznik
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2005-08-06 00:51
Anyone experiment moving the reed side to side slightly. Slight adjustments of this fashion can help an unbalanced reed play more balanced. For example: if the right side of the reed is too hard (which seems to often be the case for me) move the reed slightly left, thus letting more of the right side of the reed vibrate. Try it, you might be astounded.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-08-06 15:11
No, I've never intentionally placed the reed off-center,Rod. My reaction to an unbalanced reed would be, rather, to take the knife to it.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-08-06 16:10
While looking thru patents re: Claripatch, I found one whereby the mp table had a centerally- raised, square [trap.?] portion for centering a reed having a matching slot in its butt, mainly intended for helping beginners with reed positioning. Has anyone ever seen such being marketed? I'm sure it was met with much opposition from mp AND reed makers, by and large any changes from "simple" are greatly discouraged. Interesting, however ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-08-06 21:32
BobD,
Definitely keep that Harrison under it's protective cover. At least until Mr. Drucker's spot opens and you're ready to graciously fill the position for us! ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
As for overtightening, I have two gigliotti ligatures. The original ligature (made of plastic, with metal screws and a metal threads to screw them into), and the new one (all plastic, with plastic threads and plastic screws). Overtightening broke both.
The original one (due to the metal screws/threads), simply tightened until the ligature itself split across the back of the mouthpiece. I felt ashamed. The new one tightens until the SCREW breaks (keeping the actual ligature intact, and requiring only a replacement screw). More idiot proof (or Alexi-proof), but requires a few extra screws handy.
I like Ken's idea of how to put on a ligature. But then again, I can't remember a time when Ken has steered me wrong in his posts. So it's only natural that if I had to follow SOMEONE'S advice on how to tighten a lig, it'd probably be his!
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-06 21:58
Don, another interesting patent to look up would be the mouthpiece design made by Piet Jeegers.
He designed mouthpieces for various occlusions (overbite, underbite)
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Author: Burt
Date: 2005-08-06 22:47
Hmm...
I tighten my Luyben (plastic) lig quite tight, and haven't broken it or stripped the threads yet. I guess you guys (and gals?) are stronger than me.
Occasionally I put away the mouthpiece with a reed on it. In that case I loosen the lig, not wanting to warp the mouthpiece.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-08-06 22:58
Hi David - I tried in "simple" manner, found no pats [or applications-published] by Jeegers or Piet. A quickie search via " clarinet AND mouthpiece AND bite" did turn up US 5,303,628, Salazar [NY], mp with a "wing", could this be it ? The name sounds [possibly] Netherlands, and if patented there [E P'wise] would not be retrievable US , until cited as prior art in a later US pat. Any suggestions for further search ?? Fun, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2005-08-06 23:09
What an interesting subject because all this past week I have been obsessing over where my reed goes on the mouthpiece. I finally decided to leave a little bit of mouthpiece showing as I look down on the reed. I put the ligature on tightly and then unscrew it a bit. It is a Rovner. But I am spending my allowance on a new floating ligature and am anxious to see what the difference will be.
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Author: Kel
Date: 2005-08-06 23:53
If memory serves, Santy Runyon said you should see just a tiny sliver of reed when looking from the top of the mouthpiece, with the reed pushed flat against the tip. On the other hand (was it Harry Truman who said he needed a one-handed economist?), Larry Teal said the tip of the reed should touch the tip of the mouthpiece when the reed is closed.
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2005-08-07 01:40
BobD,
I too intend to balance the reed at some point, but often, i don't like to try to get the reed ready for prime time too soon, so this sort of off center positioning really helps. A lot of people are very reluctant tp try this technique, and the teacher who taught me about it, also felt that his students were reluctant. Maybe its a social taboo
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Author: joannew
Date: 2005-08-07 08:49
Here' another interesting patent to check out: I saw the other day a mouthpiece with adjustable lay! No need to buy dozens of mouthpieces looking for just the right feel - this one had a screw to fine tune the facing exactly as you please. Theibouville of Paris, I believe, made of metal, in a nice wooden box.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-08-07 13:35
Hi Joannew - Can you give me [us] the patent number, please. I made a quickie search for Thibouville AND clarinet, which turned up zero. Prob. since Thib, I believe, no longer exists [help, Mark C] as such, [prob. their inventions are back in the old file, pre 1976 for term-searching ??] we must search them by number or by their citation, and sometimes description !!, in the 1976 + patents. A case in point, is US 6,501,010 where the patent itself includes MANY references, so the examiner had his/her hands full for reviewing, and thereby cited a REAL laundry list of ?pertinent? references, for us? to look at !!! I do enjoy the "thrill of the hunt" , just one of my interests [hang-ups ?]. TKS, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: joannew
Date: 2005-08-08 07:50
This would definitely be pre-1976, and likely a French patent? I laughed at one pictured in a German textbook in the music shop the other day, then the owner rummaged through a drawer and pulled out this little wooden box... Voilà!
I'm planning another visit to the shop in the next couple of days, will try find more info.
Joanne
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