 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-05-30 22:03
I started to work on articulation in-depth last week, but realized that first I need to fix my tongue position so that it was stable and suitable for every note and register on my horn and every measure of a piece of music. I have tried looking through some old posts on voicing. Some people say "keep the tongue high in an 'ee' shape". OK. Feeling molars in back of mouth with tongue. No sweat. Then some people say "front of tongue low and flat, with a sort of 'dip' in the middle of the tongue". They say this helps to darken the tone. OK. How do I know when the tongue is in this specific position? Do most of you find this to be 'correct' or good-sounding with easy articulation? Is there a syllable to use which produces this "front flattedness and middle-dip" of the tongue? How about "eeh"-to- "ooh" (high tongue, 'ooh' with lips) ????
Also, I find it difficult to maintain the 'eeh' syllable for long phrases. I find that sometimes my voicing subconsciously slips to more of an "ooh" because of the tonal 'need' for it to do so. Any ideas? Thank you for your advice.
-Tyler
Post Edited (2005-05-30 22:03)
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Author: Llewsrac
Date: 2005-05-30 23:04
I am surprised you can tongue very well or very long while doing all these tongure contortions.
The "ta-eeh" sound, touching the top back molars raises the back of the tongue which I use in brass playing but not on the clarinet. The back of the throat and the air flow direction needs not to be changed as the ta-eeh would focus the air streem.
The dip to the middle of the tongue does enlarge the oral cavity to some extent and perhaps darken the tone to a small extent.
I think the best approach for clarinet is none of the two mentioned. The tongue works best when it lies natural in the mouth with no contortions imposed upon it. The tip of the tongue is a misused term. The tongue touches the reed slightly behind the tongues tip, 1/8" or so back from the tip. Dipping the middle and back of the tongue especially in slower passages ( note values larger then a quarter note) does seem to enhance the tonal resonance of the sound produced because of the larger oral cavity resonating.
I think by contorting the tongues muscles only slows the tongue down. Tongue the way it feels natural for your makeup and returns the best legato and crisp staccato without undue contortions and muscle stress, and and at all times try to keep the throat muscles soft and relaxed.
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Author: SueSmith
Date: 2005-05-30 23:19
One thing to remember with voicing...too much "eee" in the tongue position can cause the throat to close off. I had a lot of problems with tension in my throat...and thinking "ahhh" sort of like when you yawn - for the throat helps. Thinking "ooo" throughout the entire range of the clarinet made me drop my jaw too much and end up biting.
Its hard to tell you exactly what is correct, because there is no exact correct voicing for everyone. More of it is anatomy...Jaw position (do you have an underbite, overbite, or perfect bite?) and oddly enough length of tongue. Some people have wide tongues, some have very long tongues (a former teacher of mine advised one of his students to have the tip of her tongue clipped to aid in articulation- and she DID! yikes). The structure of your oral cavity (is your soft palate very flexible, high, low?) yada yada yada. The variables are endless.
So, for me "aahhhh" works, for you something else might. If you find "eeee" doesn't give you the tone you are searching for...perhaps you are tightening your throat. Perhaps thinking "ahhh" will work for you as well.
Also, the idea of certain syllables work in certain registers. My preference is I find "ooo" is best in the chalumeau and most throat tones. "ahhh" for Clarion and lower altissimo...and for stratospheric notes I use a combo of "eee" and "ahhh". Its forming "e" with the tongue and "ahh" with the throat. But...the throat is always "ahhh" and relaxed.
The hardest thing about articulation and voicing is retraining your muscles. Its so easy to fall back into bad habits concerning both areas. My advice would be, when you find a position that works for you...short spurts of practice...and resting a few minutes to relax the muscles you are retraining. Tired muscles will automatically fall back into what is most comfortable. It takes a while to fix problems like these...but its not impossible.
Best of luck!
Post Edited (2005-05-30 23:22)
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2005-05-31 00:35
A quote that I’ve been referring to before in similar issues is the one by Frederic Thurston:
...."Now try to find out which part of the tongue will contact the tip of the reed most easily. While the tongue lies relaxed in the mouth its tip can be felt just behind the bottom teeth. When you put the mouthpiece into your mouth the tongue must merely be but slightly forward and upward to make contact with the reed.
You will probably feel the reed (and perhaps the tip of the mouthpiece) 'cutting' across your tongue about 1/4 to 1/2 inch away from its tip. I consider this the normal position for most players"...
This is basic and probably works for most shapes of tongues. When you follow this you can use any syllable in the alphabet you like as far as I’m concerned to colour the sound any way you like that pleases your ears. But for basic clarinet playing you shouldn’t do anything but open your mouth, place the mouthpiece in, for yourself a correct position and close it again. Do this in front of a mirror and make sure that you look exactly the same even when you blow (for tonguing see above).
If I were the Commander and Chief I would ban expressions like: tip-to-tip, anchor tonguing, flat and pointed, puffed chins and “smiley-technique”. These expressions were added to the language by people who want to confuse clarinet students making them believe that it’s even more difficult to play the clarinet than it actually is. Of course you can do any of this at occasions for musical reasons if needed but none of it is basic, as in natural.
See also:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=135733&t=135733
Alphie
Post Edited (2005-05-31 00:52)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-05-31 00:51
"If I were the Commander and Chief I would ban expressions like:
tip-to-tip, anchor tonguing, flat and pointed, puffed chins and
smiley-technique "
-----------------------------------
Each one is pretty easily taught. Someone who Anchor Tongues certainly tongues differently than 'tip to tip'.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2005-05-31 09:06
The problem here is that people still teach these tension creating "funny faces"-techniques like "flat-and-pointed" and "smiley" at all, as if they were a good base for clarinet playing and ban everything else. Then it will take the students a couple of years after conservatory to find an embouchure that feels natural for them. Any twisting with your natural face is BAD in basic teaching. Only very small corrections and adjustments should be applied and only to compensate for let's say a long/short tongue or fat lips.
A clarinet looks the same wherever you go but people do not. That's why it's so wrong to apply any standard techniques on students. These "tricks" are only used as a formula by teachers with bad imagination who can't find a method for themselves in their teaching and there are many of them. Excellent teachers certainly don't grow on trees so they are very hard to find.
What Thurston says explains it all about tongue position. No more, no less. Add to this that you make sure that you can open and close your jaw and maintain the pretty look on your face even when blowing and that the lips are sealing around the mouthpiece by contracting the corners of your mouth gently, just enough. Relaxation and relaxation again are the key words here. After 10 000 hours of practicing you're a pro.
When you have matured as a player you can feel totally free to do whatever it takes to experiment with sounds and expressions as long as you at any time can go back to your natural relaxed way of playing.
Alphie
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-05-31 12:23
Some people talk about raising parts of the tongue, and use vowel sounds in an attempt to communicate this.
To me there is a real risk that a person reading such advice will raise part of their tongue sufficiently far towards the roof of their mouth that the constriction there causes turbulence in the air. Any turbulence through a constriction greatly diminishes the downstream air pressure.
IMHO appropriate pressure of the air in the mouth is a far more important consideration than what is called voicing, and should not risk being compromised, especially for relative beginners.
And dare I say it, IMHO a player, playing with a good tone as a result of many appropriate embouchure factors and appropriate breath pressure from the lungs, can move his tongue all over the place in his mouth (avoiding extreme air constriction) without making a scrap of difference to the tone. It makes me wonder if the entire voicing/resonance concept is actually a set of psychological triggers which alter embouchure and/or breath pressure.
Disclaimer: I am no professional. If I am way out of line, then I welcome a relevant explanation.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2005-05-31 13:41
Also consider that teaching from a printed page is quite different from having a private clarinet instructor in front of you.
Sometimes a visual clue from a student says far more than any deluge of words describing what you think is going on.
As to syllables and such...
they can be a helpful corrective tool provided the teacher is in front of the student watching and more so listening to what is occurring in student's technique......... the teacher much like a doctor can prescribe a technique remedy that may work for a particular student but would not help for another...
David Dow
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-05-31 17:57
Thanks a lot for the advice! What I am collecting here (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that I should more or less maintain a relaxed tongue position as well as embouchure position with the exception of sealing lips around the mouthpiece. This makes sense. I have been working on relaxing my throat and keeping my embouchure stable so that I can focus on fingers.
Once I participated in a masterclass with Tom Ridenour. His biggest comment to my playing was that my tone "color" was very inconsistent. Granted, this was one or two years ago, and I have improved, but he had a point. He played some Mozart for us, and his tone was probably the most fluid, relaxed, and resonant sounds I have ever heard come out of a clarinet. (Still after 1-2 years). And guess what? Most of his lecture to our class was "Embouchure kills sound. Air air air air air air!"
Thank you again, and I'm going to go and check new posts now!
-Tyler
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