 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-05-26 22:19
I've been learning the clarinet for a few years and have made plenty of progress. However, this progress seemes to be mostly due to my experience with other instruments and enthusiasm. My technique stinks and I have a lazy attitude towards 'boring but important' exercises. Family and work means that I don't practise nearly enough.
We're going for a 3 week holiday in the summer and I've decided that I'm going to devote at least one or two hours every morning to the clarinet.
Can you give me some ideas on what I should take with me? I'd say I'm intermediate level. I want to get this planned and any books ordered in advance.
Which exercises helped you most? Major/minor scales, Chromatic scales, thirds, register jumps, long tones, tonguing exercises, specific pieces, books...etc
Any other advice?
Steve
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-05-26 22:38
At the top of your list should be Baermann III ...GBK
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Author: RosewoodClarinet
Date: 2005-05-26 23:04
Also, playing trills helps develop each fingers. Moving a finger indivisually is a training which takes time to get used to.
RosewoodClarinet
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2005-05-27 01:43
See if you can play in a remote place where the spouse/other vacationers don't need to hear you practice, either that or encourage them to leave for breakfast/go for a swim without you. (There was a letter to Dear Abbey about this!)
Recommendations? Same as above.
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Author: bflatclarinetist
Date: 2005-05-27 02:07
If I brought my clarinet along, my parents would go nuts with the noise! Really Baermann book 3? Guess I should buy that!
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Author: SueSmith
Date: 2005-05-27 02:42
I third GBK and Rosewood...Baermann III.
Personally, I pick a major/minor key a day and work every exercise in that book in those keys. For example, C major/a minor - scales, thirds, ascending scales, broken chords, 4ths, 6ths...yada yada... This is a great way not to get burnt out...personally, I tire of treading through all the scales, then all the thirds - etc. in one sitting. I'd rather work on all the exercises everyday, but in different keys each day.
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-05-27 02:43
Baermann III is evil but I've noticed that it has helped. I'm too impatient some days to actually do it, but I'm really going to try to incorporate my hovering fingers (I have flying fingers) and Baermann III at once and kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
Long tones are great too, it really works the embouchure (at least for me).
Steve said:
"Which exercises helped you most? Major/minor scales, Chromatic scales, thirds, register jumps, long tones, tonguing exercises, specific pieces, books...etc"
All of the above!!!!!!! I know you don't want to hear that! They all help me in different ways. Baermann incorporates a good deal of those too....
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-05-27 03:51
SueSmith wrote:
> Baermann III ..... personally, I tire of treading through
> all the scales, then all the thirds - etc. in one sitting.
> I'd rather work on all the exercises everyday,
> but in different keys each day.
That's the precise reason why the Hite edition of Baermann III is prefered over the Carl Fischer version., as it is organized by key.
My only small complaint about the Hite version of Baermann III is that he did not include the very useful Diverse Chord Study (Exercise #7 - p.30 and p.31) from the Carl Fischer version...GBK
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Author: SueSmith
Date: 2005-05-27 04:03
GBK wrote:
>
>
> That's the precise reason why the Hite edition of Baermann III
> is prefered over the Carl Fischer version., as it is organized
> by key.
>
> My only small complaint about the Hite version of Baermann III
> is that he did not include the very useful Diverse Chord Study
> (Exercise #7 - p.30 and p.31 from the Carl Fischer
> version...GBK
GBK - I'm not familiar with the Hite edition and indeed I have the Carl Fischer ed. by Langenus. My last private teacher harped Baermann 3 at every lesson and claimed working 3-4 hours a day on the book. Perhaps this is true...or is more in line with "I walked to school 2 miles a day in the winter without shoes" tall tale. Regardless, it was never broken down to me how I could efficiently work on this monster of a book. One day I sat down and got real with myself to figure out the most efficient way to get through it. Nice to know I'm on some wave length...somewhere.
I do have a question about the Hite edition. Certain passages don't go to the extreme in the Carl Fischer...ex. Broken Chords g# minor will only go to D# at the apex instead of G# or A minor interrupted scale only goes up to B above the staff. Does the Hite edition expand the range that is lacking in certain exercises of the Fischer edition? Is it worth purchasing if I have my practice method worked out the way Hite has arranged it?
Thanks
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-05-27 04:19
SueSmith wrote:
> Broken Chords
> g# minor will only go to D# at the apex instead of G# or A
> minor interrupted scale only goes up to B above the staff.
> Does the Hite edition expand the range that is lacking in
> certain exercises of the Fischer edition? Is it worth
> purchasing if I have my practice method worked out the way Hite
> has arranged it?
The G# minor broken chord is the writen same way in the Hite edition.
In some of the exercises, the Hite edition does not go as high (ex: B6, C7) as the Carl Fischer does, but he does include some very helpful fingering choices to make some of the wide skips easier to play.
Even if you have the Carl Fischer version, I would still recommend purchasing the Hite edition, not only for the lay out by key, but for some of the other useful additional exercise patterns not found in Carl Fischer...GBK
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-05-27 07:27
Steve,
I don't know how much you practice, or what level you're at. Presumably, you can do your major scales and arpeggios. I would say that the most quick-and-dirty thing that you can do (if you need something quicker than a Baerman regimen) is your scale-in-thirds. This is a particularly educational activity on the clarinet as you strive to resolve issues with pinkies, fork fingerings, etc.
I suggest doing them slowly at first, with no music to look at. It will walk you off the 'short bus' and quickly matriculate you in the school of hard knocks.
After this, you will probably feel relieved to open up a Baerman and mark in your fingerings...
Allen Cole
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-05-27 08:21
I am going to offer a dissenting voice here.
Not against Baermann specifically, but against an over-emphasis on technical practice, and specifically on fingering.
I would guess that stevensfo is at the same sort of level as me, and has similarly modest ambitions. At our level, lack of technical facility is only one of the issues that need to be addressed, and I don't think it's the most important. We also need to work on intonation, tone quality, control of volume and articulation, etc etc.
Of course, the ideal is to work on these good things at the same time as working on fingering. The problem is, if you play excessively technical exercises, your intonation, tone quality etc deteriorate. Practice sessions become focussed on inappropriate goals like "play page 33 with no more than three wrong notes".
I would suggest that it is much better to concentrate on less technical material, and try and develop all aspects of playing. I have found Rose good for this, also the Davies/Harris books. It is also important to play real music.
Let us not fall into the debate about "if you can't play the notes, nobody will hire you". stevensfo and I aren't trying to get hired. (Not as clarinet players, anyway.) We are just trying to make music at a modest amateur level. Nobody in our bands is too worried if we miss out a few semiquavers. They are worried if we can't play quieter than mf without going out of tune.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-05-27 11:57
Thanks very much for all the excellent advice everyone. I've just looked ordered the Baermann III book from Amazon.com.
I hate doing scales and in fact anything repetitive but I've decided to take it seriously this time. I have the Klose book and love it, but after a while, the exercises seem to sound the same. I prefer to play real pieces, both classical and jazz, but realise now that my laziness with practising scales and similar exercises is seriously hindering my progress.
>>I would guess that stevensfo is at the same sort of level as me, and has similarly modest ambitions.
Absolutely correct David. In fact I'll be joining a local amateur orchestra in Besozzo after the summer and have already been told that they'll stick me with the 3rd clarinets where, presumably, I can't do any harm.
I want to concentrate on technique because up to now I've concentrated on the embouchure and have got all that pretty well sorted out. I have to work on using all the alternative fingerings correctly. eg There are times when I suddenly realise too late that I should be playing clarion B with my rh pinkie, leaving the lh for C#. It's little things like that which trip me up all the time.
As for annoying others around me on holiday, well, my son's taking his trumpet!
Steve
Steve
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-05-27 12:18
Steve, if you're going to be playing 3rd clarinet parts, make sure:
1) You are very good at crossing the break, fast, with lots of awkward notes like pinch-Bb. Practice arpeggio figures like F4-Bb4-D5-Bb4. This is a pig because it involves three different positions of the thumb, and you can't keep your right hand down for the D without wrecking the F.
2) You can play offbeats: "REST-note-REST-note-REST-note-REST-note". It took me ages to get the hang of this. You'd think it was no harder than "NOTE-rest-NOTE-rest-NOTE-rest-NOTE-rest" at the same speed, but it is; it's difficult to avoid grunting air on the beat, which fouls up the note.
2nd clarinet is actually easier than 3rd, much of the time.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-05-27 13:11
>>2nd clarinet is actually easier than 3rd, much of the time.
To be honest, they didn't actually say '3rd clarinet' to me, just that I'd be starting off with the easy pieces. I just assumed that meant 3rd clarinet.
I've seen the music they play and it's not too difficult. What terrifies me more than anything is the thought of suddenly squeaking in the middle of a piece. Since I improved my embouchure and hand position, this happens less and less, usually when I'm not concentrating and relax too much.
Perhaps the conductor won't know who it is, but I'm sure my beetroot red face will give me away!
Steve
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-05-27 14:39
This thread contains some interesting and worthwhile suggestions about what specific technical exercises to use. But I would approach this situation from an entirely different perspective.
Steve’s question was about which technical exercises are best. But that isn't the real issue. Steve’s real issue is how to overcome the resistance toward working on technique in the first place.
Some exercises are better than others, but to some extent anything will work. How else do you explain Buddy DeFranco’s “Hand in hand with Hanon?” Hanon was designed for keyboard technique, for gosh sake.
You get better by actually picking up your instrument and playing it. You’re going to be more likely to do that if the experience is rewarding in some way. On the one hand, that means playing things you already like to play. On the other hand, it means gaining mastery over things you don’t like, because often the reason we don’t like certain things is that we aren’t good at doing them.
You get better by actually playing as long as you don’t: 1) reinforce bad habits or incorrect playing; 2) continue repeating the parts you already know.
A lot of bad habits stem from the “no pain, no gain” school of practice. For instance, how many clarinet players do a three octave chromatic scale at breakneck speed, and sloppily? How many times have you practiced grimly on a difficult passage until your fingers got stiff and your tongue and finger coordination went down the tubes?
This leads to impatience, trying to advance too hard and fast. Take a deep breath and work on it s l o w l y.
The important thing is to be aware of your own psychological make-up and the limits of your own endurance and attention. When you start hacking at something, put it away and play something else. Or take a ten minute break from all practice.
When a technical exercise gets boring, find an actual piece and use it as an etude.
The biggest problem is that people tend to be resistant to the very things they need the most. I see this with piano students who really need scales or Hanon. What you do is: 1) Trick yourself into doing it, or 2) Force yourself, but in small bites at a time.
Steve has crossed the most important barrier: he has the insight, motivation, and will. The rest is just details.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-05-27 19:32
A couple of points in reply, and I am at least partially in agreement with Marakael and David Peacham. Whether you launch into a daily Baermann regimen does depend on your ability level and ambitions.
That said:
1 - We need to definite essential vs. non-essential technique. I would say that major scales, chromatic scale, and major scales-in-thirds & major arpeggios are bare-bones essential. (and thus contained in just about every method book for the last hundred years or more)
At the second tier, I would put the various minor scales and exercises along with diminished chords. (Let's remember that natural minors are easily derived from their relative major scales)
Master all this, and you're ready for another tier. If not, then get basics straight. In the third tier, I would put scales in 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, etc., and more intensive work on mechanism, ornamentation, more exotic chord types, etc.
2 - Materials. Some amateur players will succeed fairly well even with an incomplete first tier. More ambitious players may need to get beyond the second tier in order to get the opportunites that they really want.
If you want something to reward you, I would suggest playing songs by ear using the major scales and arpeggios. "The First Noel" and "Ode to Joy" are both very good beginner tunes, each starting on the 3rd of the scale. "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" adds arpeggios to the process along with a couple of accidentals. "Do-Re-Mi" is also a great song to introduce you to your accidentals. Working these can really develop the ear and this should help with tuning if embouchure and wind are sufficient.
Also, there are plenty of good song books that can give you a good education while maintaining bare-bones technique. WB/Belwin's "Tunes for Clarinet Technic" [sic] is excellent and all of my students respond well to it.
I don't think that you can really escape first-tier technical exercises (if they're too hard, play them SLOW) but above are two ways in which you can reward yourself for working on them.
Allen Cole
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Author: Robert Moody
Date: 2005-05-27 20:29
I can tell you from my most recent personal experience that while not always (usually?) the most musical players in the land, experienced military bandsmen can read and play the hell out of the technical side of the clarinet. I have met a number of 10 to 20 year players who can read down a very difficult piece nearly technically perfect the first time...but it never gets much better than that!
With that said, major and minor scales and their arpeggios are required memorization in the military school of music. I would, if you are interested in technique, find a scale pattern and range that you are comfortable with and memorize it for all major and minor keys and their arpeggios. I would also recommend memorizing the scales in thirds, returning scales and using the triplet patterns like C-D-C, D-E-D, E-F-E, etc. Then practice the reading of interval exercises like those in Baermann and other standard works.
Anything technical should be learned slowly so that there are no mechanical errors in the fingers. It is a tragedy the way the good Lord has set us up, seemingly, that messing it up one time during the learning stages seems to take getting it right ten more times to overcome it. But that is the way it is. It is worth starting slow and not allowing errors to be a part of the learning process.
Lots of good advice throughout these responses. Take what you can and let us know how things go for you.
Take care,
Robert Moody
http://www.musix4me.com
Free Clarinet Lessons and Digital Library!
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-05-28 00:14
I think that the example from the military points out a great real-life reality. You need to be a solid player in order to get your foot in the door for musical opportunities. Perhaps some of these older military guys maintain a spirit of competition and/or survival even if the musical circumstances don't always turn them on artistically. Perhaps they work hard on what they have to and are lazier in areas where they can get away with it.
This is also a concern in commercial groups where 'art for art's sake' isn't really the group's purpose. I know that I have never heard a less musical version of "Off We Go" than at the hands of the Air Combat Command "Heritage of America" Band which is a next-door neighbor of Robert's.
Musicality is a goal in all areas, but in an imperfect world some very good players--or even a very good conductor--might find themselves less than inspired by the music which pays their rent. Even so, they realize that the listener is going to be more tolerant of lapses in expression than of missed notes.
(I bring this up, because I often hear people discuss musicality in all sorts of lofty terms as if it were justification for a failure to properly execute their assigned task.)
It's important in practicing to keep your eyes on the prize and understand that the technical stuff has to be in place for any situation in which you wish to be wanted as a player. Music HAS to be executed and I think that we can do this while simply inserting musicality in our routine practice--not unlike the actor who expressively reads names from the phone book.
Also remember that the most exquisite aria will go to hell in a handbasket if the soprano involved trips on the hem of her skirt. Strong technical discipline may keep your unique talent from falling unexpectedly down a manhole enroute to its debut.
Allen Cole
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Author: Pam H.
Date: 2005-05-28 00:52
Just a few comments as I am a player somewhere in the middle of the fray. Not nearly as accomplished as some on here but not too shabby either. As you've gotten a lot of good advice already I won't say a lot.
You might take a few things that you and your son can play together and have some fun with. Because you are in the same key, you could read out of the same book if you wanted. Save a few coins that way too.
I don't know if it's true everywhere, but generally in our church orchestra the third clarinet part, when there is one, doubles the viola part.
According to our section leader he starts everyone new to the group on the second/third part to begin with. Several reasons. It's an open to whoever is willing to play group (no auditions or chair bumping) and by starting them on second he can gauge where they are at skill-wise. Usually it works out as most people in our group are not very competitive and actually some are quite content to play second or third and stay away from any solo lines. If you are able you can advance fairly quickly as section needs dictate.
I have taken clarinet and flute on vacation and not had a problem with bothering others. Normally when I do this though, I go with a cabin rather than hotel accomidations.
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-05-28 01:55
Hmm........Rubank (maybe easy for you), then Klose, then guess what? Baermann III (have fun! ) after that, maybe Baermann IV or Kroepsch (I use Kroepsch "on-the-side").
Stark's staccato studies are brutal...I think I'll be working on those quite a bit this summer.
Don't forget solos! Play Weber, begin working Mozart (no one ever truly 'finishes' working on Mozart--it's harder as you get better), and play French music like Messager and Paulenc.
have fun!
-Tyler
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-05-28 02:51
The last two posts from Allen Cole contain some of the best advice I have read on this bulletin board. I am going to print them up and use them as guidelines for teaching and for my own practice time as well.
There is a lot more going on in a private lesson than just learning musical knowledge, especially when the pupil is a kid. A private lesson is a mentoring relationship where the kid spends thirty minutes or an hour a week with an adult.
Some of these kids are very busy with many activities, and the sort of practice routines sometimes advocated on the board seem laughable to me. In some cases a private lesson is little more than music appreciation. In others it is thirty minutes of sight reading. Even that can have value.
Many adults shy away from music because it wasn’t fun when they were kids or because the standards set before them seemed to them like a solid brick wall.
On the other hand, for those ready for serious study, Allen’s standard is simply and clearly stated, along with clearly understandable reasons why. It’s a roadmap.
Allen, maybe you should consider publishing some of your thoughts.
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