 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2005-05-12 04:07
I know....it's a clarinet site and saxers should go to their own corner.....BUT...and it's a BIG but as far as I'm concerned....since I posted on several sax sites and no response/ (maybe they 'practice" more than we clarinetists).....Anyway....traded a B & H 2-20 for a C melody Sax. As I continue to explore this beast, I'm wondering about what the saxists call "rolled tone holes". What the he** does that mean? What are they?
AND.....why's everyone giving me he** for having a C mel instead of a so called modern sax. This guy is really cool and sounds cool.
JG....the Clarinator
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Author: Llewsrac
Date: 2005-05-12 04:17
Look at the tone holes, the top edge of the tone hole. the metal is rolled instead of straight edged.
The C Melody is cool, but like the Alto Clarinet, it's day has come and gone. I know of no performance degrees in C Melody or Alto Clarinet!
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-05-12 04:44
Best thing to keep in mind, John, for future reference is:
Emphatically Instruct your tech (or impress strongly on your memory if you do your own work), DO NOT to try to level the tone holes when servicing/repadding. Dressing rolled tone holes the way you'd do "ordinary" ones can lead to an expensive disaster. Things will just never be the same again. Trust me.
Otherwise, C Melody saxes may not be common but they're sure a lotta fun and, personally, I love the sound of the C melody sax.
Rolled tone holes in my experience, regardless of maker, indicate a better than run-of-the-mill quality. If the mechanism is decent, you probably have a real gem. Forget what "Everyone" says, do your thing 
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
Post Edited (2005-05-12 04:45)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-05-12 04:59
If you look at almost any student flute you will see rolled tone holes.
Rolled tone holes cut less into pads. This makes the pads last longer on flutes. (Professional flutes often have soldered-on tone holes, of thicker metal, and with a non-rolled edge that is also kind to the pads.)
On saxes the pads are covered with far tougher material - leather - so rolling the tone holes is not so much of a consideration. Sax pads often 'die' from hardening of the felt well before the leather cuts through.
It takes more manufacture time to put rolled tone holes on a sax, so yes, they tend to be an indication of some conscientious at manufacture, but most top quality saxes do not have rolled tone holes.
If rolled tone holes are damaged or distorted - quite common on saxophones - they are a lot more difficult to get round and level again, as Ron indicates.
There are other disadvantages to rolled tone holes on account of the larger surface area of metal touching the pad....
- Pads tend to stick more to the tone holes.
- Unless adjustments are done to a very high standard, and kept that way, more finger pressure is needed to make the pads seal on the tone holes.
BTW John, if you had asked your question in the "Tech Discussion" section of the forum at saxontheweb.net - the most significant sax forum - you would have had answers similar to this and Ron's.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-05-12 12:19
John,
Rolled tone holes are an interesting topic. But, I'd suggest that you don't make a big deal of them. Some great saxophones have them and some equally great saxophones don't. I, personally, haven't noticed any practical differences between playing a saxophone with rolled tone holes and one that has standard tone holes.
I think it's MORE interesting to explore the question of why you decided to get a c-melody instead of a more commonly-used member of the saxophone family such as an alto or tenor. So, why did you? I'd love to hear about it.
Personally, I'm a big fan of the c-melody. I was curious about the instrument and attracted to it for a very long time. Finally, I got one around 5 years ago and I've been having the time of my life exploring the tonal possibilities of a c-melody. I use my c-melody in a variety of musical settings including big band, small group jazz, and saxophone quartet. I've even used it in latin and r&b bands! I love bringing the unique sound of a c-melody to these ensembles. Of course, I often have to transpose alto or tenor sax parts....which is ironic from the standpoint of why the c-melody was developed as a concert pitch instrument!
As fond as I am of the c-melody, I wouldn't recommend it to someone starting out on the saxophone. It's my personal feeling that it takes a certain level of skill and maturity on the saxophone to be able to understand and deal with some of the quirks that can come with a c-mel. Most c-melodies that I've played had intonation problems that were more serious than a comparable vintage alto or tenor. Not all c-melodies, of course, have intonation problems. But, I've found that to be the case for a larger percentage of c-melodies than vintage alto or tenors that I've played. Then, there are quite a few issues surrounding c-melody mouthpieces. That's a WHOLE OTHER discussion! I can't help but think that it's going to be harder for a saxophone beginner to work through the kinds of issues that are involved with a c-melody than learning on an alto or tenor. Does that make sense?
It would be my personal suggestion to keep your c-melody -- in particular, if it's a later model Conn and in good condition -- but to also get an alto or tenor and focus on coming up to speed on the saxophone on that horn. It's safe to say that anyone playing a c-melody also has other saxophones that they play such as a soprano, alto, tenor, or baritone. Overall, it's probably best to think of the c-melody as a doubling instrument.
Please don't take my suggestions as a discouragement. By all means, continue to love your c-melody and take it on a path of exploration. But, it's also a good idea to have an alto or tenor.
If you want to hear a fine modern jazz saxophonist wailing away on a c-melody I highly recommend that you get several CDs of Dave Pietro. Excellent player! Happily, there's a growing list of top-level sax guys who have discovered the c-melody such as Joe Lovano, Scott Robinson, Tony Braxton.... The c-melody is starting to come into it's own. It's my feeling that the c-melody is kind of like how the soprano saxophone was in the late-50's. At that time not many people (aside from classical and traditional jazz saxophonists) played a soprano and it was thought of as an out-of-tune 1920's instrument. Then, after John Coltrane started playing the soprano just about everyone got one. Today, it's a commonly-used instrument. It's my feeling that more saxophonists will discover and take up the c-melody in the years ahead.
If it's any help to you, the set up I use on c-mel is a customized 1920 Buescher c-melody, Ralph Morgan 4 (.080) c-melody mouthpiece (faced for tenor sax reeds), 2.5 Alexander Classique reeds, and a silver Francois Louis ligature.
Good luck to you! Please let us know how you're coming along on your horn.
Roger
Post Edited (2005-05-12 12:38)
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