 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2005-05-08 04:44
There are a wealth of suggestions on Klarinet about how to break in and adjust reeds. Adjusting means changing the play characteristics by removing cane. This I understand. In a previous post I wanted to know physically what is happening during the break-in period. The suggestion was that I search the archives. Good point!
I looked through all of the posts that used Arundo Donax, the scientific name for reed. There are a few thousand posts that use the work “break”. I tried googling Klarinet in order to use a more restrictive search logic. Here are the results of the past few hours:
Edwin Lacy posted a reference to
<a href="http://www.idrs.org/Publications/Journal/JNL16/JNL16.Lacy.Exper.html">An Experiment in Treatment of Arundo Donax</a>
A colleague noted that after soaking reed, the water would appear to become a pale green in color, but that in subsequent changes of the water, it would remain clear. The conclusion was that certain contents of the pores of the cane were leaching out during the process of soaking. Lacy tested for salts in the leach water and concluded that minerals were indeed leaching. He concluded that if before making bassoon reeds, the reed was soaked in distilled water in a dark place with three changes over five days, the finished reeds “…will not need a break-in period and their playing characteristics will not be so highly susceptible to changes upon repeated usage.”
Lacy also notes that for long life, he keeps reeds “…meticulously clean, using an ultra-sonic cleaner between playings. Also, I wet my reeds only in distilled water, which seems to further prolong their life.”
Dr Omar Henderson <a href="http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=90093&t=89734">states that</a> while he has seen no experimental evidence about aging cane, he feels “… that the aging process probably stabilizes the fibers and bundles of the cane structure which become more fixed in spatial alignment as water is lost and new chemical bonding patterns develop. Then, when the reed is cut, aged cane will hold it's configuration within the new shape to a stronger degree than a reed that has not been as thoroughly aged.” Also, we learn that The Doctor is growing his own reed in Georgia.
Mark C.
<a href="http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Doublereed/2004/07/000086.txt">points out that </a> “…the enzymes in saliva can't break down the lignin. There are
a number of other factors that affect the stiffness of the reed - for
instance, if there is significant mineralization from your saliva clogging
the tubules it'll go soft, since it's the presence of water within the
tubule cylinder that gives the reed its stiffness (seems counterintuitive
that a wet reed is stiffer than a dry one, but that's the way it is ...).”
GBK <a href="http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=115447&t=115406"> recommends</a> a slow break-in period for Gonzalez reeds – at least 5 days – to allow the reeds to stabilize. Clearly this is a different phenomena than The Doctor refers to, since he is talking about long term aging rather than short playing sessions over a series of days.
I can recall a few things from previous posts that I didn’t find this evening. :One problem with reeds is that stuff from your saliva ends up in the reeds and bacteria ends up growing. The bacteria may be what causes reeds to deaden over time. Maybe soaking in peroxide helps. Also, smoothing the vamp with one’s thumb may add some oils to the reed, which may or may not be a good thing.
And I learned something about my memory: In 2001 I posted <a href="http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2001/05/000194.txt">a similar question:</a> “1) what is the mechanism by which wetting and drying breaks in a reed.
2) why can't reed makers automate the break in process before we get the reeds:”
Unfortunately, I can’t figure out how to find the responses.
My conclusion is that I now have an excuse to get an ultrasonic cleaner. I have always wanted one because you can drill a tiny hole in the top of a can of soda, pop it into the ultrasonic cleaner, and send a geyser 20 feet into the air. Oh, and maybe I should buy a box of reeds, soak half of them in a few changes of distilled water for a few days, make sure the bottoms are flat, and then see if the soaked reeds play any differently from the unsoaked ones.
Post Edited (2005-05-08 04:56)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-05-08 11:25
Peroxide only aerates the reed for a day or so. My big thing is to clean the reed completely after playing to get rid of any dead lip skin on it, etc. by rinsing it with water and sometimes using a toothbrush and soap.
That alone helps the reed last longer.
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Author: NiceOldHorns
Date: 2005-05-08 15:05
Send some pictures of your "Soda Fountain" when completed, won't you?
I was under the impression that natural cane should be put away dry - I would expect any cleaning process to require further wetting.
The nicest thing about my synthetic reeds is the ease in storage...
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Author: fredackerman
Date: 2005-05-09 14:14
Jim, Thanks for the "reed care roundup", just goes to show there are many ways to break in a reed! I must admit it's a bit confusing for those of us who want to do it the correct way.. On the other hand it seems that there are quite a few "correct" ways to deal with the reed. Oh that ultrasonic contraption is something I've had my eye on for many years, now that I know you can recreate Old Faithful, I'm getting one!
Fred
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-05-09 16:29
Just from a physical point of view - since the reed was cut from an arc of circle and then planed off. The reed will tend to want to go back to the seimi-circle that it had while growing. When rehydrated - initially, the reed will tend to warp back to the circular shape making the back of the reed concave and making the reed only touch the table of the mouthpiece with the two outer edges. Many reccommend flattening the back surface of the reed with some abrasive substance to allow more contact of the reed with the table of the MP and therefore increasing the vibration at the tip. Some reeds warp more than others. Some ligatures are configured to press the reed in the middle and thus forcing the middle inward which compensates for the concave warping of the reed. I doubt that the force exerted by a ligature is enough to accomplish much in this regard but have not done any studies on it.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-05-09 16:44
Doc Omar,
Everything you write makes sense, but I've observed (especially with larger reeds) that warpage, when it occurs, usually is in the opposite direction, such that the bottom ('flat') side of the reed becomes conVEX and the edges of the reed lift away from the mouthpiece rails, causing leakage. Your thoughts?
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-05-09 20:56
There are a couple of things going on when the reed soaks up moisture after being dried out most of its life before you got it. All reeds will not warp to the same extent. There are larger water carrying ducts toward the middle of the reed than on the sides, this is to be sure because this area would be situated more to the internal part of the cane where larger ducts reside in the growing reed. There is therefore a battle going on between the larger ducts taking up more water - which would cause a convex warpage, and the force in all the ducts trying to return it to a semicircle from the arc cut from the cane tube. It will depend on many factors including the number of viable ducts, the extent of rehydration, the density of ducts within the reed, etc.. In the beginning before full rehydration you might get a convex bottom of the reed curvature but the majority of fully rehydrated reeds should approach a concave profile.
I guess my question is: does this happen after you sparsley wet the reed and just begin to play? What is the condition after you have played for a while and supposedly the reed is fully hydrated?
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-05-09 21:25
In my situations, this 'convex' warpage occurs to fully-broken-in reeds, which have been soaked in water for at least 10 minutes prior to being played.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-05-09 21:44
Well, I do not doubt you observations. I have done a pretty large study of my own Bb clarinet reeds. I will break in a reed - IMHO adjustments should only be done after you have broken in a reed (whatever your approach may be) - and then after I have rehydrated the reed and played about 10 minutes I will take off the reed and just barely rub it across 800 grit wet paper on a glass plate. In the majority of reeds there will be two parallel lines corresponding to the edges of the reed (I only rub the underside of the reed behind the reed cut out to the heel - the tip and most of the body not touching the wet paper) which indicates to me that the edges are higher than the middle corresponding to the concave theory. There may be variables in larger reeds that I am not aware of!
L. Omar Henderson
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