 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Sue G
Date: 2005-05-06 19:45
Hi,
I was wondering if any of you could give me some advice please ?
My problem is timimg - I've a good sense of rhythm ( bit of a ballroom dancer in my youth) and can keep perfect time instinctively tapping my foot or fingers or even when singing; I can count it in my head perfectly too but as soon as the clarinet goes into my mouth and I begin to play all sense of timing just seems to disappear !!
I used to play the violin in the school junior orchestra (rather badly as I remember) but don't recall timing being an issue then.
My timing is so creative on the clarinet I couldn't possibly play with anyone else I'd drive them batty !
I've been playing now for just over two years - Is this a common problem or is it just me ????
Would appreciate any thoughts as to how I can correct this please.
Thanks
Sue
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-05-06 21:12
Sue -
Playing in a group involves splitting your attention between playing the instrument and staying with the group. It sounds like you're getting so immersed in the process of playing that you aren't feeling the beat.
Use what you know. Imagine you're dancing. When you dance, you have to feel which steps to take and also stay with the music and your partner. Use that template for your clarinet playing.
Find an appropriate dance step for the music and tempo and visualize yourself doing it for a couple of measures before you come in. Move your feet (gently) in the dance steps. Prepare yourself (hear the music and imagine you're playing) before your entrance, just as you would prepare for the first step in a dance.
Feel what the conductor and the other players are doing, and respond and stay with them, just as you do with your dance partner. For the time being, put that first, and clarinet playing second.
For the time being, tap your foot. As you get used to playing in time, make the taps smaller, until it's just one toe going inside your shoe.
As you learn to play the instrument better, the playing becomes almost automatic. Remember that playing, by yourself, is only part of it. You also want to merge into the group. so you become part of a lingle, large music instrument.
It's not easy, but everybody can learn to do it. When you do, it's one of the big, fundamental breakthroughs, and, believe it or not, you already have a good head-start.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Sue G
Date: 2005-05-06 21:32
Thanks Ken.
I can tap my foot in time perfectly - even while I'm playing but my fingers don't seem connected to the beat !!!
I do have a problem tapping my feet, in that I know as a musician it's not the "done" thing but every time I hear music of any kind before I realise it my foot is going ! And if I consciously stop my foot from tapping as soon as I stop concentrating on it, off it goes again !!! I just can't help it !!!
To the beat every time of course !
That's the really frustrating part - I just can't translate that perfect timing to my playing yet but perhaps I'm trying too hard.
I'll lighten up on myself and try to "go with the flow " of the music.
Thanks again
Sue
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Author: Pam H.
Date: 2005-05-06 23:58
Do you take private lessons? Some lessons may help. Sometimes my teacher notices things that contribute to timing - like the way I take a breath. Do you feel comfortable on the clarinet or are you still working just to play it? If you're still thinking a lot about "how do I finger this" for instance, it may be harder to just play the music.
You might try using a metronome, or go ahead and use your foot as a metronome. It's not nearly the crime many on here would have you think for the level of playing that you are currently at. When and if you play in a group, the conductor becomes the metronome.
Also remember to RELAX when you play, at least part of the time. When you are not getting all tense you will probably make fewer mistakes.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-05-07 00:16
If I may, Sue, I'd like to add just one other suggestion to Ken's already good ones. Have you tried playing along with a favorite CD or tape (or whatever's available)? Next to playing along with another instrumentalist or a group, playing to recorded music is about the best practice I know of to get rhythmic patterns processed into your thought/finger co-ordination. The simpler the melodies, the better, to begin with.
Many folks might envy your innate abilities. You already have 'what it takes'; vocalist, previous violin playing, dancing, other related talents you might not have mentioned or thought of, you just need to find a connection to the clarinet.
Again, as Ken has already said, it is OKAY to tap your foot, fingers, nod your head, wiggle your shoulders or anything else you think might help you "go with the flow"... for now anyway....
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
Post Edited (2005-05-07 00:18)
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Author: Sue G
Date: 2005-05-07 14:36
Thanks for your replies and support - I'm really heartened to hear that it's ok to carry on tapping my foot !
I'm not proficient on the clarinet yet and am still having to think about my fingering a bit, so I think that probably does add to my creativity in the timing department !
I do play along to backing tracks - mainly midi files on my pc which do help - it's actually only when I leave the melody line on the midi file and try to play along with it, that my creativity is obvious !
Haven't tried a metronome but will give that a go too.
Thanks again
Sue
:)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-05-07 19:16
Sue, sounds to me like starting to use a metronome would really help you.
Bob Draznik
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2005-05-07 21:11
When I came back to clarinet after a 40 year break, I had a lot of trouble coordinating my fingers and tongue.
You may be having a similar problem.
Try playing everything without tonguing and see if yor timing improves. If this is the case, practice without tonguing until you have it perfect then add the tongung. If adding the tongue messes it up, try it at half speed until you have it right then speed up in increments until you can play it at full speed.
Now that I've been back at it for several years the probem has gone away.
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Author: Rick Williams
Date: 2005-05-09 11:52
I think it is perfectly natural to put your own twist on music when you are playing alone, after all who knows better the composer or the "artist?"...G
Find a community band and play with them or work with a teacher. Both will require you to develop tempo skills.
Best
Rick
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-05-11 17:40
Sue -
Your mental and toe-tapping rhythm are OK, but your fingers are dragging. OK, it's time to work on your fingers.
The key is in your third message, where you say you're "still having to think about my fingering." I remember that well. Until I'd been playing for a little over a year, I would constantly get off, and get lost. By the time I saw a note, recognized it, thought of the fingering, put my fingers down and started to play, 3 or 4 more notes had gone by.
Then, one day, I saw the G on top of the staff, and jumped to the correct fingering, without having to do all those things in between. I still remember where I was when that happened. I said to myself, "Now I'll never have to go through all that again. Whenever I see that shape (the way G looks), I'll just make the fingering."
After a few minutes, I realized that top line F was just G with my right index finger down. Then, first ledger line A was G with the left ring finger up. Over the next week, I made the associations with the rest of the notes.
You recognize shapes, not notes. The names of the notes drop away. You go directly from the look on the page to the fingering.
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The next step is to stop playing notes and instead play the spaces between them. If the notes are G on top of the staff and the F below, play the G and then lower your right index finger. If you see the G followed by D, you play the G and lower three fingers on your right hand. The shape you read is not two notes, but what comes between.
This is why practicing scales is so important. You learn each interval. In fact, you learn recognize the shape of an entire scale and play it as a single gesture. When you see that shape, your fingers do a sequence of movements they already know.
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It's also vitally important to learn scales at an extremely slow tempo. Once you get each interval into your fingers, you can play it as fast as necessary. However, if you practice too fast to be perfect, you're only teaching your fingers to do it wrong. For more, see the advice from Larry Guy, David Hattner and Mark Nuccio at the Clarinet Symposium http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=178641&t=178641
Use a metronome, set slow enough that you can see the next interval, make a mental picture of moving your the finger(s) and then do it perfectly. You'll probably have to set the metronome at it's slowest speed.
There are more exercises for working out particular problems, but for now, work on getting the basics into your fingers. It's time to buy Book 3 of the Baermann method. Don't be intimidated. Spend, say, 10 minutes of your best time, at the beginning of each practice session, getting one exercise perfect. Speed is irrelevant. Take it as slow as you need to, to get everything right.
Try this for a week or two and report back on your progress.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Sue G
Date: 2005-05-11 18:59
Thanks again for your replies.
I undersatnd perfectly what you're saying Ken - I've noticed recently that when I know a particular section I can read ahead and play it without a problem (sometime even surprise myself at how my fingers do seem to manage to do it without me having to think about it!!!) and I think you've really hit the nail on the head with scales.
I'm guilty of not spending enough time on them - I've recently bought "Scales and Arpeggios for Clarinet" by Ian Denley and am trying to discipline myself to involve scales far more into my practice sessions - I've only been doing them at the begining but will start to do them at the end too from now on. You also guessed rightly that I'm likely to try to play them too fast as well !
So I'll endevour to concentrate more on accuracy than speed in future.
Will report on my progress in a couple of weeks.
Thanks again
Sue
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