 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-04-25 16:00
Hello.
I have made arrangements to rent a student model bass clarinet. This is a first date to see if the bass and I are compatible for a possible long term relationship.
Does the player's choice of reeds and mouthpiece for soprano clarinet help inform what might work with bass?
I blow a Selmer Series 10 from the early '70's, with a Vandoren B45 profile 88 mouthpiece and Michel Lurie #4 reeds.
Thanks.
Markael
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-04-25 16:22
If you are comfortable with the B45 and Michel Lurie reeds on Bb, I'd say give them a shot on bass too.
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2005-04-25 16:23
IMHO you may find that the necessary change to your embrochure will significantly alter your thinking and choices. If I intended to continue with the Bass, and either buy or rent one, I would start by buying Walter Grabner's CXBB, a Rovner, light, ligature and use your own choice of reeds--dropping down to a 2.5 to start. Good luck and have fun.
Bob A
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-04-25 16:30
First of all, Mitchell Lurie doesn't make bass clarinet (or the identically-sized tenor sax) reeds. I'd suggest good old reliable Vandoren for starters. As for mouthpiece, I wouldn't recommend the B45 (or any Vandoren) for bass clarinet, the facings are all wrong (too short with too much curvature near the tip). I'd second Bob A's recommendation and go with a Grabner.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-04-25 16:38
Yea, ignore my first post. David spiegelthal probably knows about this better than me.
Actually I have B45 mouthpieces for both soprano and bass clarinets (don't use them anymore though) and the soprano mouthpiece is pretty good, but the bass mouthpiece I don't like so much.
Maybe you want to get a cheaper mouthpiece before you decide if you want to keep playing bass (but after you start, you can't stop!!). Maybe a Fobes Debut is what you need.
Post Edited (2005-04-25 16:45)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-04-25 16:46
Bob A's advice will work well. We have discussed bass cl mps and reeds several times, so try a search or two to become acquainted with the variety of opinions. My long term bass cl playing is in community bands rather than symp orchs, and my 1st choice is a Pomarico [glass !] #3 lay, or similar "open facing" by knowledgable re-facers. Earlier, I found that I liked the Selmer C* better than the VD 45, a Bundy #3 was quite good also. Refacing these MAY be better still. I use tenor sax reeds, #'s 1 1/2, 2 and 2 1/2 since most of my playing is in the chalameau and throat "registers. If you won't be playing in the higher clarion-altiss., the softies will sound better, with control ! Enjoy the bass pleasures, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: William
Date: 2005-04-25 22:18
Grabner CXBS bass clar mouthpiece, Legere #3 bass reed and an Optimum lig with the parallel rail insert. Works for me.
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Author: Low_Reed
Date: 2005-04-25 23:53
What works for me (on a new, student-level Yamaha YCL221 BC to Eb): Grabner CXBB mouthpiece, Alexander Classique 2.5 - 3 TENOR SAX reeds, and a stock metal ligature. I recommend that you make the investment in a custom mouthpiece. It made a BIG difference on my horn. And I just know you're gonna be hooked by the sweet, low, siren song of the bass clarinet, so it'll be a good investment.
I'm serious about the investment angle, and the importance of a good piece. In a few months, I'm planning to look for an EEb contralto clarinet. And I've already decided to purchase a Clark Fobes San Francisco model contralto mouthpiece, BEFORE I try out any horns.
--Bruce
**Music is the river of the world!**
-- inspired by Tom Waits and a world full of music makers
Post Edited (2005-04-25 23:54)
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Author: Erdinet
Date: 2005-04-26 00:40
If you are looking for an alternative to the site's favorite mouthpiece maker, the estimable Mr. Grabner that is, you can also find a quality bass clarinet mouthpiece (Bb clarinet too) by checking out David McClune's site. (Do a search for David McClune you should have little problem finding it.) He makes two out of this world bass clarinet models both based on the Selmer C* ( and a third based on a Zinner blank). In fact you can send him your C* and he will alter it for a small fee (something like $50). Very nice reasonable fellow this David McClune and will work with you.
What everyone on the board is saying about having a good mouthpiece is only all too true for bass clarinet. From my experience the bass clarinet mouthpieces as they come off the line are very much out of whack. These mouthpiece guys that sand down the tables, even out the rails, bore out the chamers and open the tips a little make some incredible improvments. The $250 might seem a lot to pay but it will make a HUGE difference in your ability to play the instrument.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-04-26 13:45
"What's in a name" when it comes to Bass Clarinet mouthpieces? Vandoren, arguably the premier name in mouthpieces (and reeds) is seemingly clueless when it comes to designing and making bcl mouthpieces, and apparently oblivious to years of criticism for the wrongheaded philosophy they apparently have when it comes to this segment of the market. Selmer, IMHO, has one of the best formulations in this area in their C*, but quality control is so shabby that I have long since stopped recommending them! I had a new student present with a "Geo. M. Bundy" bcl mouthpiece (Selmer USA product) a few weeks ago--despite its humble name it plays and sounds better than many expensive "custom" mouthpieces I've seen over the years! (This is not to say that I'd rush out and buy one--I've seen many Bundys that were totally unacceptable.)
I played most of my career on a Lelandais mouthpiece faced (in the 1950's) by the late Robert Miller in Milwaukee. Over the years I've shared the dimensions with David Hite, Walter Grabner, Roger Garrett and others. Since my retirement I've actually switched to a Zinner-based Garrett, which is easier to play than the Lelandais, although it might lack a little of its tonal depth. (With Grand Concert #3-1/2 or #4 reeds). Ron Aufmann of the Cincinnati Symphony tells me he is using the same setup--sounds pretty damn good on their new CD of Le Sacre!
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-04-26 14:48
Mr. Bocaner brings up a good point about Garrett mouthpieces, I should have mentioned them also -- they're good and they're inexpensive.
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-04-26 17:31
Thanks again to all for the thoughtful advice.
Searching the net, I quickly discovered just how specialized an item a bass clarinet mouthpiece is.
The ideal is to try several, but it's not all that practical. Woodwind and Brasswind actually lets you try out three or four. Trouble is, the Selmer C* is out of stock until the end of May and I couldn't get information on the exact model of the Grabner.
There was a consistent thread of positive feedback on the C*, (that was before Larry's post about the poor quality control), so I decided to spring for one from another source, and I also ordered a Rovner Light ligature.
Who'd a thunk I would order a Selmer mouthpiece? I hacked away with an HS* for years, and it was horrible.
Well, the bass should arrive Friday. With any luck the piece will come in about the same time.
Markael
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-04-26 17:45
Sounds good, Mark, let us know how it works for you. You may want to have the C* refaced by Garret , Grabner, Spiegelthal or another good worker, but give it a try and post for "interesting info" for us, please. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-04-26 20:52
Markael,
Good luck with your new basscl; hope you dodged the odds and got a "good" C*!
Now about that Rovner ligature: I have a very talented adult student who commutes from about 100 miles away for lessons. He has a beautiful new Buffet Prestige bass and a very nice Grabner mouthpiece. When he came to me with a fabric ligature (BG, I think) I just felt that he could get a better sound than he did with that setup, so I had him try my silver-plated Bonade ligature. Well, it was like the sun coming up in the morning; what had been a, frankly, "tubby" sound with the fabric lig, all of a sudden filled out and glowed. I was amazed--I expected some improvement, but what we both heard was so spectacular that it was almost magical. I wish I could be such a Svengali with everyone who shows up in my studio. I'm not a fan of fabric ligatures, and hadn't personally any experience with the BG, so i don't really know if this information is also relevant to the Rovner Light. I did experiment with the Rovners some 20 years ago--I felt at that time that using one was sort of liike driving my car with a foot on the brake pedal.
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-04-27 01:54
Thanks, Larry. I'll keep that in mind when the time comes to experiment with ligatures.
I have trouble understanding how a ligature can make a huge difference in the sound or playability of the instrument. Not denying what you are saying; I just don't get it.
Two or three years ago I broke down and bought an Eddie Daniels' Rovner. I like it fine, but I don't bother with changing out the little metal spacer. One night I had to teach a clarinet lesson and discovered that I had inadvertently left the ligature out of the case. So I got an oversized rubber band and wrapped it around the reed and mouthpiece. It worked fine.
If the results are as spectacular as you say, eventually I'll just have to try it for myself.
M
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Author: Ed
Date: 2005-04-27 03:45
For mouthpieces, be sure to consider Clark Fobes. He makes top notch mouthpieces at three different price levels- the San Francisco, Nova and Debut.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-04-27 05:13
Larry Bocaner, I don't like fabric ligatures too because from my experience they strech and after a while they wouldn't fit anymore.
But, Louis Sclavis (and I really don't know anyone better on bass clarinet than him currently in the world) uses a fabric ligature so who are we to say they are bad.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-04-27 21:03
Clarnibass,
No argument about Louis Sclavis' genius! But I thought we were talking about mainstream bass clarinet sound, the kind that wouldn't be out of place in a symphony orchesra or a fine concert band.
Just to show that there are no absolutes in music, both Ricardo Morales and Eddie Daniels play on fabric ligatures--I'd sell my soul to Osama bin Laden to sound like either of them! Exceptions that prove the rule?
Larry
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-04-27 21:42
My 0.5 cents' worth: Basically, fabric ligatures tend to dampen higher frequencies --- this can be good, bad, or indifferent, depending on whether (a) the player considers his/her sound to be too bright and WANTS to cut down on the treble; or (b) a player's sound is on the 'dead' side and he/she wants to 'liven' the sound with more brightness, or, best of all, (c) the player can compensate for the reduction in high frequencies by using a 'brighter' mouthpiece., or livelier reeds, or other means. So you see, the ligature itself is neither the problem nor the solution --- it's the total setup (including player) that ultimately determines the sound.
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-04-30 22:12
Okay, I’ve tried the bass one time and thought you might like a progress report. Already I’m hooked.
The rental horn is a Selmer USA 1430-P.
I used the C* with the Rovner light ligature and a Vandoren 2 ½ reed. I bought three bass reeds of varying strengths and one 2 ½ tenor sax reed. I have no idea which 2 ½ is the tenor reed!
First note out of the box was a throat G. Wow! Throat tones sound clear on a bass, more so than on a soprano. Low notes sound good. High notes sound good and play surprisingly easily. It’s that middle register that seems to be tricky.
Ever since I asked for the horn, Round Midnight has playing in my head, with Gerry Mulligan on Bari Sax. (He did that with Billy Taylor.) So I tried playing the melody in D minor. (Concert Cm) Sounded great, except for the not-so-hot B natural. So I put it down a step, and it sounded even better as long as I could finesse that first G.
The C* blows freely. For now, it ain’t broke and I’m not ready to fix it.
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