 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: coasten1
Date: 2005-04-07 03:51
Is it possible that one could have the correct embouchure but because of the natural shape of the mouth, the pitch will always be on the sharp side?
I am always consistenly sharp over the whole clarinet. I pull out quite a bit. More than I think I should to get close to pitch. I am going to have another clarinetist from my group try my clarinet and see if the fault lies with me or the instrument. If it is the instrument, I am not sure what to do. I don't know that a longer barrel will solve the problem as I am also pulling out at the middle joint. I have had my clarinet serviced by the Brannen's. I don't know if there is anything they could do to drop the overall pitch of the clarinet. Who knows. I am open to any comments.
(added) I am playing a Yamaha Allegro clarinet. I have a new Vandoren 5RV and a M13. My years of lessons ended about 2 year ago. I have dropped my reed strength down to #3 Rico Grand Concert Evolution. I have other brands of reeds and it doesn't seem to matter which brand as far as my pitch is concern. I used to have a better centered pitch. I have had my clarinet out in a few direct sunlight concerts. I can't imagine that it good for the clarinet. As far as altitude, I am in the Chicago area.
Tony
Post Edited (2005-04-07 16:22)
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2005-04-07 03:58
Have you asked you teacher why you're sharp?
And if you don't have a teacher, maybe it would be a good idea to look for one.
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Author: VermontJM
Date: 2005-04-07 03:58
Sometimes mouthpieces or barrels can help... I noticed that my new mouthpiece has pushed the pitch up on my instrument a bit.
I have recently started playing bass in order to just loosen up my embouchure. You can't get notes out on bass if your mouth is too tight. So far so good, for me.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-04-07 08:27
Are you playing in a high air temperature. That would make you really sharp.
Post Edited (2005-04-07 08:27)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-04-07 11:39
It could also be from playing on a very hard reed. What strength reed/mouthpiece do you play?
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-04-07 12:42
Are you playing a Buffet E-11? My experience is that many student-line clarinets are intentionally built to play sharp, on the (mistaken) assumption that kids with undeveloped chops are going to play flat. When I have students who play E-11's, I have them get an R-13 barrel (preferably Moennig--usually 66 or 67mm) which allows them to play at A=440 without pulling out so much that the throat tones are egregiously distorted. Also usually improves the heck out of the sound and feel of the clarinet, too! Local repairman Tony Valenti fabricated a 66.5mm barrel for one of my students that is an absolute gem--for about half the price of a new Buffet barrel!
Inexpensive brass instruments also seem to be endemically built to play sharp--could some school band directors be accepting that status quo, forcing the manufacturers to need to build instruments too sharp in order to compete?
Post Edited (2005-04-07 16:28)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-04-07 13:48
How does a long barrel upset the scale less than pulling out a standard barrel?
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-04-07 13:50
Tony,
I naturally play high, and yes it is part of the shape of the oral cavity that affects it. Technique could have something to do with it, but giving you the benefit of the doubt, it could be completely natural. Very unlikely that it is the instrument itself -- if it was that much of a pitch horror, Bill and Linda would never have worked on it in the first place. You might contemplate going as far as a 68mm barrel, but at that length you start to throw the instrument out of tune with itself.
I would recommend looking at mouthpieces that center at a lower pitch. The Gigliotti is a good example. Many old Chedevilles (after which the Gigliotti is modeled) play lower as well. Try a few different things and see what works for you.
Good luck,
Mark
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Author: susieray
Date: 2005-04-07 15:13
In my experience, Ralph Morgan mouthpieces also play a little on the
flat side (mine is a RM15); you might try one out and see
if it helps....
Sue
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-04-07 16:18
Gordon,
A longer barrel upsets the scale much less than pulling out a shorter barrel because the gap in the bore created by pulling out seems to affect the throat tones way out of proportion to the rest of the instrument. There are "tuning rings" available at far less expense than a longer barrel, but I've never had much luck with them--and it sure is a nuisance fiddling around with the little buggers when you are trying to adjust pitch before or during a performance or rehearsal!
The enlarged chamber of the Chedeville-type mouthpieces seems to be a mis-match for modern smaller bore clarinets, creating the same depressed throat tones as a bore gap. Hans Moennig was noted for his ability to increase the undercutting of the throat tone holes in order to adapt modern (Buffet) clarinets to the treasured Chedevilles. Unfortunately that ruined the instruments for use with any other type of mouthpiece!
I strongly suspect that the E-11 was originally designed with a normal length barrel, and that Buffet mandated the short barrel in response to band directors complaints that the "damn things play flat"! (See my previous post). Fact is, my experience with the E-11 is that the scale is improved with the use of a proper (and longer) barrel; pulling out to the same degree creates terribly flat throat tones.
[discussion of tuning rings in thread below, seems to answer your question, too, Gordon]
Post Edited (2005-04-07 16:37)
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2005-04-07 23:10
Tony
It sounds to me that your embouchure, may be too tight, what we call in the UK 'biting' on the mouthpiece. A good exercise is to try relaxing the pressure on the lower lip and opening the throat. Do this at the top of the instrumet i.e. at the C (thumb/ speaker key) and see if you can get any other notes like a B, Bb, A, or Ab. This helps develop fexibility. Your setup sounds fine the Vandoren mouthpieces are made to play at hrz 440.
Good Luck
Peter Cigleris
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Author: coasten1
Date: 2005-04-08 03:20
Thanks for all your suggestions. I will need to try a variation of different things. I may start with some longer barrels off the top to see if I can use this a quick fix and figure out what else may be going on. I could always swtich back to my original barrel if I start playing flat. It was also brought to my attention in band tonight that I noticed that my pitch has changed since I had bowel surgery this past September. Something involved with that could be influencing the pitch change. They did have to cut through all the stomach muscles. But anyways, if something changes and gets me back on track, I will post what it was that helped.
Thanks again.
Tony
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Author: clarisax
Date: 2005-04-08 03:34
i used to play sharp all of the time too before i got a moennig 67 mm barrel. i play on a buffet festival clarinet with a morgan rm06 mouthpiece and size 5 reeds. since i bought the barrel my intonation has improved as well as my overall tone. i think the moennig gives a more...hm....its hard to describe...resistant (?) feeling that i like more than the stock buffet barrels.
as far as suggesting morgan mouthpieces to lower the pitch, i would have to disagree. morgan mouthpieces are much shorter in length then standard french mouthpieces, thus making them sharper. i think maybe the larger bore of these mouthpieces may help to flatten the pitch, but they still play sharp for me and most people i know. i just like the tone i get out of it and the duckbill shape.
i have been told by a few teachers that if i want to get rid of my sharpness i should buy a vandoren mouthpiece that is in the m13 line. these mouthpieces are pitched at 440 instead of 442 which most standard french mouthpieces are.
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Author: DezzaG
Date: 2005-04-08 03:55
Morgan mouthpieces may be shorter but they are know for playing flatter. They have a very big chamber volume which is important in regards as tuning, that is why the overall mouthpiece is shorter.
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Author: marzi
Date: 2005-04-08 04:13
thats interesting, I have a vandoren rv5 and I end up playing extremely sharp which was never a problem I had before, my son is also sharp with his different clarinet with the same mouthpiece. I now am trying a Hite mouthpiece and can end up a tad flat, go figure. my son and I have older student possibly intermediate model? selmer and evette/buffet wood clarinets. the sharpness really gets magnified when air temperature and humidity increase.
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Author: RosewoodClarinet
Date: 2005-04-08 07:07
Yes, Vandoren M13 mouthpiece and other 13 series are made for A440. I tried them and I noticed they lower pitches......but, to me, it was too low especially throat tones.
Maybe, it works for very sharp instrument. The best way is checking with tuner and see how sharp you are...
Good luck.
RosewoodClarinet
Post Edited (2005-04-08 14:31)
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Author: claril
Date: 2005-06-16 15:11
As msloss mentions, I think it could well be the oral cavity or the embouchure rather than the setup. The problem occurs often enough to say it's easier to just change the way you play, the 'style'. I don't know how easy it is to change the way you play though..
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