 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SHU_Clarinet
Date: 2005-03-10 03:50
I have played b-flat clarinet for about 8 years now and have been "attempting" to play e-flat this concert season. I have been playing since September of last year and still cannot manage to get a good/clean response. The instrument I am playing on is an older Buffet model. I began using the standard Vandoren reeds but they produced an often squeaky/squawky tone quality. My teacher recommended that I try the B-flat Vandoren White Master reeds and trim them down. These seem to work slightly better. However I am still having trouble producing a nice, solid tone. I am also getting a bit of a delayed response at times. I have tried using various mouthpieces as well, and am still having trouble.(everything from selmer to vandoren models) I know that the embouchure should be slightly firmer than that of a b-flat, but after trying for months I am not convinced that all of my troubles are due to embouchure formation. I feel like nothing I try really makes that much of a difference and am beginning to become frustrated. It's puzzling to me because the b-flat seemed to come so natural to me and I am not sure why I am having so much trouble. Has anyone else had this much trouble switching from b-flat to e-flat clarinet? Or does anyone have any suggestions?
Sincerely,
Squeaky E
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-03-10 05:23
The Bb clarinet is very forgiving. The Eb is not. The Eb is therefore an excellent indicator of lapses in your technique (as I'm discovering).
Play to your fingers. Don't "force" the note out. Get the pitch in your head, and just play the note, don't "try to play" it. If you're thinking "oh goodness, this instrument plays high," you will likely tense up, cutting off the airstream and pinching the reed, resulting in squeaks and poor response.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Julie
Date: 2005-03-10 11:51
just wanted to say I am having the same problems! I use a school instrument- a bufet e-11. I use vandoren 3s (which might be to thin, I dont know...) and I have tried cutting down regular Bb vandorens, 3.5 and 4s, but not for a much beter result..., a vandoren B44 MP and a fabric lig. I think it's a rovner, but I could be wrong. I think the instrument might just be faulty, but I have generally the same problems. So I'll be looking forward to the advice too!
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Author: William
Date: 2005-03-10 15:06
My set-up is a vintage Selmer HS** Eb mpc, a BG Bb ligature (to accomodate the larger circumference of the Selmer) and V12, 3.5 Bb reeds with the butts clipped for shortening. I experiance better responce and intonation above C5 on the Selmer than on my expensive custom Bay Eb mpc. BTW, this set-up works well on both my Yamaha pro model and Bundy Resonite effers, so the clarinets "quality" seems not to be a factor.
As with any effer, you simply have to play them--they will not play themselves. But for me, the Selmer seems to help "tame" the beast, so to speak.
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-03-10 15:40
the holes are so tiny! it feels so weird switching off between effer and Bb-- even weirder when I am playing bass, soprano (Bb), and Eb...
-Lindsie
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Author: clarispark
Date: 2005-03-11 13:50
It is a difficult instrument to attempt, especially if you've played B-flat as long as you have. I played the B-flat for six years before picking up the eefer, and I can not manage to make myself sound good on the E-flat.
I have some Selmer model with a JD Hite mouthpiece. It's a school instrument and our teacher refuses to make repairs (too much cost, he says, for an instrument that one person plays), so many of the upper notes don't sound right. The above-the-staff D rarely, if ever, comes out.
So anyway, back onto the right tangent...I hate to say it could be you, but it might be. E-flat is an entirely different game.
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2005-03-11 22:23
I never use actual "Eb clarinet reeds" anymore. Most serious "eefer" players now use a normal Bb soprano clarinet reed, having snipped off the bottom half inch with scissors or clippers.
The extra width of the Bb reed gives it some strength or "substance" to blow against, rather than having to use a reed that has too hard a tip to produce a good sound.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
World class clarinet mouthpieces
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Author: Lon Roach
Date: 2005-03-14 05:20
Jessica....Some of the problems you describe may have more to do with the instrument than the setup.How ols is old? Just because it say's Buffet doesn't mean it's good. They made some dogs too. You might want to find another instrument and put your setup on it and give it a blow and see if it responds the same way. I played Eb with the U of Minn top ensemble from 64 to 74(some years in the service too) and started off with an OLD instrument of dubious mfgr. It was a handful. They got a new Selmer top of the line the next year and with an HS* mp everything was fine. Don't like HS* on Bb but they work very well for me on Eb. I used regular Bb reeds cut down to size. However, we did more to them than just shorten them. Since they are made for a larger mouthpiece with generally wider rails we would also turn the reeds on the sides and using 600 emery paper sand them to fit the rails. this will get rid of a little more mass and give you a cleaner response. In those days we even did it with the Bb reeds either because the cut of the reeds was sloppy and this cleaned them up or the reeds seemed to be just a bit wider than the rails of the older mouthpieces. In those days alot of reeds were thin on the outer tips and this procedure seemed to take away a common tendancy to get whispy squeeks on attacks. When you narrow the reeds up you may have to just brush your 600 paper against the outer tips to round them back to the shape of the mouthpiece. If it still tends to blow a tubby /stuffy sound then start taking wood away from behind the tip, between the very tip and the start of the flame shaped area(when looking through them into a light). Good luck. Effer's are unique and a lot of fun when you finally get it right.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-03-14 06:47
Does anyone think that thinning the tip a little with reed rush or sandpaper might help get a quicker response?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: starlight
Date: 2005-03-14 09:06
I am a senior in high school, and for the music festival I was asked to play the eefer for 2 songs (variations on a korean folk song and Symphony From Themes "Movement After Fairest of The Fair")
The horn is quite fine, a selmer bundy 1405. I used the mouthpiece that came with the eefer, but changed the ligature to a BG ligature (revealation).
At first I tried using normal b-flat reeds (Vandoren 3's), but the tone quality was pretty airy. Afterwards, I went out and bought e-flat reeds (also Vandoren 3's), and the sound was much better, and i had no problems reaching the high registers (altimisso C,D, E,..).
The story behind...now that the music festival is over, I am glad I don't have to play the eefer anymore. No more high pitch shrill noises and annoyed looks from players next to you whenever you hit the high E.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-03-14 12:11
Starlight,
Your comment "I am glad I don't have to play the eefer anymore. No more high pitch shrill noises and annoyed looks from players next to you whenever you hit the high E" is really great.
I, too, had "my day in the sun" recently playing eefer on Morton Gould's band arrangement of the First Noel. The part at times goes into 6 sharps and lies all across the break at that point. For the rest of the concert, I played beefer so you can imagine the ergonomic problems along with the tonal challenges I faced when my eefer debut came and went. I had several F6 and F#6s also.
I, too, am glad I do not have to play the eefer anymore!
HRL
PS I have a very good eefer, a PM Artist with a very fine Selmer C** and a VD ligature. Even that was not enough to make me want to do it again.
Post Edited (2005-03-14 12:14)
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2005-03-14 13:48
Starlight said: "The horn is quite fine, a selmer bundy 1405. I used the mouthpiece that came with the eefer, but changed the ligature to a BG ligature (revealation)."
I'm sorry but there should be a fine for that sentence.
I have played only one plastic eefer that could be counted as "fine" and that was a Charles Bay modified Vito. Great horn.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2005-03-14 23:25
i suspect a bad mpc . have you tried a brand new one? merlin there are good playing plastic effers. my 60,s vintage bundy plays very well indeed
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Author: starlight
Date: 2005-03-15 08:57
Hey Hank Lehrer,
Must have been a nightmare for you playing through all those sharps!
Merlin,
The eefer that I had was given to me. I had no choice. It is school owned, but i was the first person to play it!
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2005-03-15 16:19
Indeed, as I noted, I've played a Vito plastic eefer that was quite good.
I find the key work on the Bundy eefers to be terrible. I'm always open to trying them out on an individual basis, but I've been disappointed by all the Bundys I've played so far.
I recently was in the same situation - I had to play eefer, and a Bundy was the only one at hand. It was so bad I had to look around for something else.
Plastic Vitos and Yamahas (actually the same horn) are much better.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-03-15 16:59
Walter Grabner is a Sponsor and makes well-liked Eb mouthpieces. http://www.clarinetxpress.com/Ebstyle.html
Walter - I'm puzzled by the recommendation of Bb reeds on Eb. At least on the Eb mouthpieces I've played, Bb reeds would be quite a bit wider than the width of the lay. On every instrument I play, a reed even slightly wider than the outside edge of the rails has the response killed when my lower lip wraps around it and blocks it against the side of the mouthpiece.
In fact, Kalmen Opperman taught me to sand down the edges to make the reed slightly narrower than the outsides of the rails. This leaves me leeway to move the reed slightly to one side or another to find the spot with maximum resonace.
How do you adjust Bb reeds for Eb, other than cutting off the bottom end? If you don't shorten the cut, it would extend pretty far past the top of the window and under the ligature, and the heart area would, I think, be too high. Also, do you narrow it at all?
One mouthpiece maker (Don Johnson, I believe) made an Eb mouthpiece with a Bb width, which I've been told Pete Hadcock used.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Veldeb
Date: 2005-03-15 17:14
Ah the joy's of Efferdom..... I have a great instrument.. but an even better mouthpiece. I invested in a Clark Fobes mouthpiece and barrel which really eased up the resistance i was having and cleared up the throat tones. Another trick I've employed over the 30 yrs Ive been playing effer is above E6 I just transpose up a half step and don't open the Eb key so I don't have to peel my lip off the reed to get it in pitch. Every Effer has itsThis allows you to use a bit softer reed to get more tone in the sub stratospheric range. Sounds like your horn might need a tune up... when was it overhauled last? could be you have some keys out of alignment or pads not quite set right. Ive found my effer needs yearly adjusting and is more sensitive to that aspect than my Bb. I think my teacher summed up effer playing pretty well and its stuck with me.. an effer is supposed to be bright and adds "shimmer" to the clarinet section....when you're in tune.. its great.. when youre not.. everyone will know it! Happy playing! Blake
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-03-15 19:38
Starlight,
The sharps were managable (I transposed into flats - I'm really a "flat man") but the biggest problem was the ergonic challenge of shorter key depression distances, smaller keys, and a very restricted/cramped hand position.
I had the tone, intonation, and articulation well under control (good instrument, reeds, MP, embouchure, and ears). But a half century of very well ingrained beefer hand position really dies slowly (or rears its ugly head at the most inopportune times).
HRL
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